Okay, if I can provide examples of a non-spanking reaction being as effective as a spanking one, can we then assume that the assumption above is correct? Barring pre-existing mental health issues in the child.
I suspect I can, as I know rather a large number of children who are well-behaved, polite, and whose parents are complimented on their disciplinary success - but who do not spank. Period. Many of them are Quakers, but some are not.
They are firm, clear, and not wishy-washy in the discipline they do apply. They will listen to discussion and explanation, but they have the final call on what is and is not appropriate behavior. They don’t give a lot of room (time-wise, repeat offenses before acting) to negotiate, either, and the consequences that come from misbehavior are quick and relevant. Even when safety issues occur, they have not had to hit to obtain compliance from their kids. However, when I’ve discussed it, all of them have said that they also are not controlled by a fear of hitting their kids if it did seem necessary. It just doesn’t end up being necessary, because they take steps to ensure that it is not necessary.
Are their kids somehow genetically superior to other kids? Or are the parents just capable of being firm, clear, direct, and consistent, without using physical force? It takes some patience and a lot of self control to say no, firmly and without emotional investment, and then immediately take the (non-spanking) action necessary to get the point across to a toddler whose first reaction to your first no is to laugh in your face. It takes some willpower to enforce your chosen discipline quickly, whether it is simply acting bored with the misbehavior (one of the most effective techniques on most toddlers I know), or physical punishment.
Will it work for all kids? Maybe not. No more than spanking seems to work for all kids. But it works for so many of the kids I know, I suspect it would work for most of the kids for whom spanking ‘works’. And given that I’ve seen it work on a wide variety of personalities and family styles, I think that assumption (that the two methods both work) is solid.
Kids need immediate reactions/consequences in order to moderate their behavior. But immediate consequences can be as simple as a facial expression.
Case in point. We’ve got two very obedient children. The first was, frankly, born that way. He checked to see if things were okay before doing them, long before he could walk. Cool.
The second was NOT born that way. If you didn’t respond immediately the right way and maintain your stance, he’d push it, look for your buttons (to push), laugh at you, ignore you. However, once epeepunk and I realized that part of the problem was that we weren’t being consistant both in our individual responses and between the two of us (that is, his response and mine differed), and we were a bit sloppy on the enforcement (sometimes reacting immediately, sometimes not) - and we corrected that, he started really listening and responding when we say no. He knows that if I say ‘please put that down’ I will come over and physically assist him in putting it down if he does not. So he puts it down, 9 times out of ten (the tenth time, I help him put it down). If he has previously been told not to play with that item, all it takes is a serious look, not even a word.
Not bad for a one-year-old. And he’s been responding like that for more than a month. Probably from about 8-9 months, when we realized that our lack of consistancy was the issue.
And no spanking required. He isn’t old enough to understand the principles involved (‘don’t play with your brother’s toys’) but I don’t have to hit him to get his attention, and I don’t have to hit him - even lightly, on the back of the hand - to get him to remember that something is not permitted. The consequence matches the act - if he doesn’t put it down, it will be put down for him, and he will be prevented from trying again, immediately.
Do we mess up? Yeah, sometimes we get sloppy again. But a slight tweak on OUR end gets immediate results on his, without having to hit. It works. It works for safety issues (don’t touch power outlets, don’t hit). It works for social issues (don’t hit when you are angry - yes, our one-year-old knows not to hit when angry).
I suspect that spanking works so well when done ‘properly’ (that is, without emotional baggage) because it is utterly consistant. You don’t have to think about what reaction to give, there’s just one. Immediate, clear, direct. But if you have immediate, clear, direct reactions of any type, it will also work in most cases.
Will it work for a kid who is already out of control to the point that the police know him by name? Maybe not. He won’t trust that the system is reliable anyway. But violence, especially if unexpected, is quite a wake-up call. And if you have made it clear that you will employ it, consistantly, reliably, every time, it will work. Might not solve the problem underneath, but I doubt anyone really thinks it does solve the problem underneath - spanking isn’t the solution, understanding that a behavior is not permitted is the solution. That requires rules and discussion, even if it is limited to ‘you will never threaten your mother again’.
IzzyR, I suspect that you haven’t seen it in action because there are plenty of people out there who aren’t consistant in their reactions, period. That’s not the fault of not spanking. That’s willpower and self-awareness, maybe, plus a misunderstanding of the goal of parenting (not to be best friends NOW but to have a loving and respectful relationship with effective and appropriate adults, later). And resorting to spanking might be slightly more effective for those who cannot formulate an alternate plan. But I suspect that spanking by those same (inconsistant) parents would just result in different problems, not a solution.
Anyway, that’s my take on the debate as it has evolved here.
As for the OP - is spanking abuse? It can be. Not disciplining can be neglect, whether physical or simply setting boundaries and enforcing them firmly. I don’t think spanking is necessary for normal children (not chemically unbalanced or dealing with severe emotional issues, possibly from lack of consistant reactions earlier). I think that even many kids who already have problems respond well to consistant non-spanking methods. It takes a lot more effort on the parent’s part, though.
Somehow, I don’t mind putting in the effort at the front end of things. It seems to work, and I haven’t had to spank anyone.
punishment). Now as a parent, I can count on the fingers (not including the thumb) of one hand the number of times I’ve had to use corporal punishment (certainly less than I received). Every time my son had the option of changing his behavior before being spanked. Other than an occassional attention-grabbing hand smacking, my son was never hit without lots warning or chances to change his behavior.