I just don’t get it.
You can be an excellent parent and use spanking as a means of punnishment.
You can be an excellent parent and NOT use spanking as a means of punnishment.
You can be an terrible parent and use spanking as a means of punnishment.
You can be an terrible parent and NOT use spanking as a means of punnishment.
Does anyone disagree with this?
no.
What I DO disagree with is:
You MUST WHUP A CHILD WITH A LEATHER BELT UNTIL THERE ARE MARKS ON THEIR LEGS to be a good parent.
[Moderator Hat ON]
Remarks such as :
lokij
Joe_Cool
Are not appropriate in this forum. Cool it, or everybody’s getting a time-out. 
But no spankings.
[Moderator Hat OFF]
And what I disagree with is morons like you taking my statements out of context and exaggerating them to the point of absurdity.
If you think a child, who knows better, playing with a firearm without supervision or permission is not a severe enough incident for a severe spanking, then I think you’ve got some serious issues and I question your ability to parent a child.
ummm, ok. Really rotten timing. I’d like to retract the ‘moron’ statement.
moron?
I see you can’t even follow the rules of the moderator.
step into the pit.
ummmm…ok
rotten timing for me as well.
still, accept my invitation to the pit.
Frankly, I’m not interested in your invitation, or your opinion regarding me as a person, or your opnions of my parenting skills.
I do apologize for calling you a moron, though.
I think the best advice in this thread comes from Dalovindj.
Oddly enough, for a change I agree with Dalovindj’s post 100%.
Lib, I notice that I’m agreeing with you and Polycarp quite a bit these last few weeks. Should I be worried, or should you guys?
Wow. Both Lib and Joe Cool agree with me. Where is the camera? It’s the opposite sketches maybe? Glitch in the matrix? Either way, thanks.
Oddly, I think I would make a terrible parent. I can’t even keep a handle on my own laundry never mind be fully responsible for another human. I hated school and didn’t care about homework and I can’t stand working a 40 hour week (and therefore don’t). I drink too much and I stay out all night playing loud music at parties. I always pay my bills, but I ususally do watever I feel like. I’m good with cats, but they don’t talk back. I still think I can judge what makes a good parent even if I wouldn’t be one myself. Shakespear commented on this type of sentiment:
I have great respect for anyone who raises a child. It requires sacrifice and making yourself the second most important. It is challenging and can be dangerous. Children can be way over the top sometimes and while I think abuse is terrible I cannot condemn any parent for physical discipline. The line between the two may sometimes be hard to draw. Still, I think it is very important for a child to understand the difference between punishment for a crime and using violence as a problem solver. If you hit a child I think it is very important to later explain to them the exact thing they did and the exact punishment that can be expected for such a thing. They should associate breaking rules (not anger) with pain/fear.
Of course once they hit 16 it’s a losing battle . . .
DaLovin’ Dj
Yes, that’s true.
What strikes me as strange about this thread is that spanking is a subject of debate, with pros and cons and logical arguments back and forth. For me, it is much more an emotional issue. I love my two kids beyond words, but, maybe even more importantly, I like my kids. They are kind, funny, smart, and respectful. I don’t hit adults whom I like and love, and I can’t imagine hitting my own kids. One poster here talked about spanking “to be done when deemed necessary and in love.” Spanking “done in love” – sorry, but it just sounds and feels so wrong.
The electircal outlet issue is superfluous to thinking ahead; which is what much of my point is regarding. Parents are expected to child proof their houses; and can be considered quite fortunate if a child stumbles around unscathed in a non-childproofed house.
Parents must understand that people have been working collectively in social groups to create technology which no single newborn is expected to comprehend all at once. It is not abuse to cover/fill/lock an electrical outlet; or to place mock walls over staircases, or to place a gun beyond their cognitive apprehension of the concept of permanence (throw them in a safe or under some floorboards, put them in storage, loan them to a registered friend who is not directly dealing with this issue acutely.
I’m saying that a child does not have to be born. That is your choice (a hypothetical of being raped and tied up for 9 months and then using a DNA test to prove both parents etc… can be run through; but too lengthy right now).
Children cost money, children cost time and those children do not have to be here. Sure, a meteor could fall from the sky and hit your child; but what’s spanking them going to achieve here? What prepararations are you going to make to avoid this? The only one you can make is to not have the child. You are making VAST non-consent issues for any child that is being born; it is the responsibility of the parent to imbue the phenomenal concept of consent into the child, or else the child is simply being had for perverse amusement on the parents behalf.
It’s not an issue of creativity; it’s an issue of reality. I stated earlier that parents have shit for pressure upon themselves to raise a child outside of a complete fantasy-land, both for themselves and the child. Just because you have the option to move freely in this society that elicits mindless delusion; does not mean that you don’t have an obligation to raise a child taking all of the most severe pressures into consideration.
Children will have many opportunties to learn pain throughout their lives and sufferring throughout their lives and cause and effect throughout their lives. The most fundamental concept for a parent to embed into their child is the concept of consent; as it will allow them to comprehend the real world frauds which poke and prod at them endlessly.
-Justhink
The only thing the outlet issue proves is that:
“My parent were only interested in having me so they could spank me by not placing mock plugs on an outlet.”
Your ignorance is no excuse for cause and effect; the outlet issue shows a general pattern of peronality in a human being, and how they deal with life. Leaving entrapments in which to prove the value of exersizing certain behaviors or perspectives which are superfluous given their options.
-Justhink
And this is the crux of the debate. You say a parent’s responsibility is to child-proof the house, I say the parent’s job is to world-proof the child. My responsibility as I raise this child is to make sure that she is prepared to survive and succeed in the world AS IT IS. If I give her a sterile environment to live in, her immune system will be weak and she’ll be killed by the first germ she encounters once the bubble is opened. And if I protect her from every concievable hazard, then she never learns to discern and avoid danger on her own. Since my goal as a parent is to make sure she will be able to function without my guidance someday, it is vital that she learn to make decisions and weigh risks. So we take reasonable precautions and teach her how to behave and what not to do.
Which leads us back to the topic at hand. A spanking (intensity consistent with the severity of misbehavior) is the best method of behavior modification that there is. As I’ve said before (paraphrasing Robert Heinlein), nature has provided us with this wonderful learning device - pain - so we’d be stupid not to take advantage of it. When my daughter thinks it’ll be fun to mess with my guns, she will be able to weigh the cost and see if it’s worth it. And I’m confident she will make the right decision.
But if not, she’ll meet the belt. And furthermore, I’m confident that after she gets the belt once, a second time will not be necessary.
But what if… she is spanked with a belt for playing with guns, but in a year or two, or week or two, she makes another wrong decision about something else. Does she meet the belt again? Or do you tell her after the first spanking that if she makes another wrong decision again, for anything else, she is spanked again with a belt.
My question is, will one spanking cover all future wrongs, or will she need more spankings for every type of wrong she commits throughout her childhood?
And not that it matters, but your post sent a deep chill through me. I’m worried and frightened for your daughter.
:rolleyes:
This has gotten ridiculous. Bunch of f-ing drama queens on this thread.
I’m not going to give you a detailed report on my disciplinary program, and I’m not going to justify myself further to a bunch of whiny busybodies.
And not that it matters, but the lax disciplinary attitudes and large number of people still crying about not getting a pony for their 11th birthday on this board send a deep chill through me. I’m worried and frightened for the future of our society.
And for the amount of money you people must waste flapping your mouths to therapists.
Nature gave us the ability to feel a wide range of pain, so why not take advantage of it to the fullest? Why stop with the belt?
I mean, if more pain equals more discipline–which is why the belt is better than a hand, right?–then shouldn’t it be even more effective to use a yardstick or a barbecue lighter?
And as long as you’re not doing permanent damage, it’s not cruel, right? Because it’s just discipline; the kid is learning to associate misbehavior with severe pain.
Not that I would ever do such a thing. When I have kids, I plan to be prepared to render unconscious anyone who hurts them (until they’re old enough to take over that job themselves), and I don’t feel like kicking my own ass.
But that’s where this all leads, right? If the belt is better than the hand, the switch is better than the belt, and the club is better than the switch.
Yes, and therefore the gun is better than the club, so why not just shoot all children at birth and be done with it? No more disciplinary problems, right?
Thank you, Mr2001, for showing us once again how finely honed are your thespian talents, and how sharp is your wit. For those who missed it, that was, of course, Mr2001’s presentation of “The Reductio ad absurdum.” Please join us next time, when he will portray “The Conjunction.”