Specific question about estranged families

My sister, my mother, and I all eventually cut off ties with my father. All was for basically the same reason, his mental illness for which he refused treatment, though we all had different last straws. For my sister, it was one Christmas when she had asked for a power tool, and he bought it for her, but labeled the tag as being for “<granddaughter>'s little brother” (granddaughter was still an only child at that point), because he was apparently incapable of grasping the notion of a woman owning and using a power tool herself.

For my mother, it was after he asked her for help in shopping for something, and she grudgingly agreed, and he later called the shopping trip a “date” (they had long since been divorced by this point, a fact that never really registered with him). She decided that she couldn’t afford to do anything that encouraged him to think that way, and if he interpreted any sort of contact at all as encouragement, she couldn’t have any sort of contact at all with them.

For me, he was saying that the doctors at the VA hospital wanted a psychiatric evaluation for him, and I urged him to take their advice. To which he responded that he would take the advice of people he respected. Implying that I was not such a person.

Later, my sister also became estranged from my mother and I. That was mostly from her having fallen into the Cult of Trump, combined in some measure with her having inherited some of Dad’s mental illness.

Wait, isn’t there something missing here? You know, that middle stage where the son says “Mom, listen, I know you mean well, but my wife feels like your constantly cleaning up our house is an implied criticism of her housekeeping and your cooking all the time is a criticism of her cooking, so I love you and all but could you please knock it off? Thanks” and then when the mother responds “Fuck you! I’m going to double my cleaning and cooking because I have every right to barge into your house and make it like it was my house” THEN he decides to cut her dead and move the family to Virginia.

I guess I’m really fortunate that, despite not having a picture-perfect upbringing, I know my parents did a lot for me and there was mutual love and respect.

As for parents “bewildered” by children’s rejection, they don’t have to be lying - some may well have convinced themselves that the bad or neglectful things they did didn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things, nothing to apologize for and blood ties conquer all.

I haven’t communicated with my sister in decades. Background there includes obnoxious brother-in-law trying to interrogate me about the troubled aunt in our family he wanted to blame for their son’s mental problems, and who embarrassed the hell out of me by telling a loud “nigger” joke at a family dinner in a nice restaurant (to the point that I got up and apologized to a bemused black guy sitting at a nearby table). If an outsider had asked them, they’d have sworn up and down that they did nothing to warrant my bad treatment of them (sister, who initiated complete cutoff by returning an Xmas present and warning me to stop sending them gifts, e-mailed me 10 years ago to warn that time was running out for me to admit what a rotten person I’d been to them - sorry, no dice).
I’ve told her I’ll always be there if she needs help and mean it. But as of now, she’s just someone I knew long ago and have no further connection to.

Neither my sister nor I am fully estranged from our mom, but we both have had extended periods of low, sometimes very-low, contact with her.

My mom has always been an extremely critical, micromanagery, and angry person when it comes to her children (and husband, although I think that got much worse once we children grew up and moved out). We never knew when she was going to erupt in an explosion. I guess we still don’t; of course, now that we don’t live with her anymore, she doesn’t have the power over us that she once did. (She also knows that I, at least, can walk away – my sister has a more complicated life situation – and that gives me enough power that she regulates herself enough that I’ve never had to fully walk away.)

To non-immediate-family-members, she is an outgoing and charming person. It was kind of a joke (but it really wasn’t) that all my friends liked her more than they liked me. I found out years later that my best friend had wished she had my parents (and I wished I had her parents, which she also thought was bonkers, lol, but that’s a different story). (The biggest fight my mom and I ever had, and the one which led to me going very-low contact for a few years, was when I yelled at her in front of other people, because it was absolutely not okay (in her eyes) for me to air our family dirty laundry in front of others.)

Right now, my sister has gone low-contact with her. I will be the first to acknowledge that my sister can be over-sensitive about some things, although I will also say that I think a lot of it has to do with having had those places become sensitive through a lot of poking at them when she was younger. But also my mom will not stop poking and being critical.

Mom kept asking what was so bad about her parenting that my sister doesn’t want to talk to her and saying she didn’t understand. I asked her if she wanted me to point out when she said things that made my sister not want to talk to her any more. So, the next time she was super critical because I didn’t do something exactly the way she wanted, I pointed it out to her. Guess what? She did not take it well.

I am absolutely sure that she talks to her friends about what ungrateful little brats we are and how she’s given us everything and we don’t even talk to her very much. And they probably have the same reaction as the OP. And I am grateful for all she has done for us! But it’s really hard to be in the same room with her sometimes.

Here’s an example. On our (my family, sister’s family, our parents) last family vacation, my parents footed the entire bill for the lodging, which was the expensive part (a very nice Airbnb in a tourist destination that my brother-in-law reserved). That was really nice of them, right? Super nice! I agree! The last day, we were doing the checklist for checking out of the Airbnb, and one of them was “take out the trash,” so I was emptying the trash from the bathrooms. Mom (who has not ever checked out of an Airbnb before, I believe) started complaining that this was not reasonable and that the airbnb had too many things to do (it didn’t, really – it wanted all the towels put in the washing machine and the wash started, which is maybe one extra step but otherwise was pretty reasonable) and we already had to pay a cleaning fee and we should just stay in a hotel if we had to do all of this. Okay, fine (if obnoxious), but I was still emptying the trash, so then she YELLED at me at the top of her lungs that she FORBADE me to empty the trash.

That was my snapping point, and I yelled back at her that she had no idea what she was talking about, but I’m sure the way she talks to her friends about this is, “I was just trying to save my daughter some work and told her she didn’t have to take out the trash, and she yelled at me! Isn’t that weird and awful?!” And they probably agree, because put like that, it does sound weird and awful!

Since I heard the story second hand I can’t tell whether there were any intermediate steps. I did think it was pretty funny that my friend (77 y.o) was so sure it was all the “millenials” fault when even by her own description the MIL’s behavior was demeaning and intrusive.

1This sounds exactly like the whole premise of ‘Everybody Loves Raymond’ except Ray and Debra don’t move away. They just put up with his mother Marie’s intrusion, her doing the cooking and the cleaning and just barging in any time uninvited. Debra had the (admittedly silly) idea to have fish instead of turkey at Thanksgiving. Marie brought over a turkey anyway “in case anyone wants to…you know…eat!” The whole family had a big blowout once for several episodes, and they tried reasoning with Marie, explaining, asking nicely, asking not so nicely, to no avail. She simply couldn’t take a back seat to her Darling Baby Boy’s supposedly incompetent wife!

My family I grew up in, on my mother’s side, we are very volatile, but all bark and no bite-- we are little, state-legal fireworks, not bombs, if that makes sense. I think a lot of Ashkenazic Jews are like that. No one would ever dream of cutting someone off, and making the rest of the family try to decide which one of them to invite to weddings and B’nei Mitzvah.

Honestly, Alex drinks too much, Lydia should help more with the dishes, everyone is sick of Jonas’ unsolicited advice, do NOT put on the news if Susan and Ilan are both there, and Sabra has a new boyfriend that none of the other women want to be alone with.

And occasionally, there are some really bad things going on. When one elderly relative could not take care of himself, a his wife was not doing a good job, to put it kindly, we called adult protective services. Their kids were mad, but not to the point of cutting anyone off.

My husband cut his mother out of his life. I haven’t heard her side, because I never met her, and now she is deceased. His sister has done the same, and his brother did not see her but would email and talk on the phone. He claimed that she was abusive to them when they were children, and in a peculiar way I won’t go into.

I don’t know what I would do in his position.

I do know that he was angry enough with his father for not intervening, that he cut him out as well, but he began to realize that his mother prevented him from seeing his father, and denigrated him verbally (they were divorced). He reconciled with his father in time for our wedding, and our son had a wonderful grandfather.

On my father’s side, there was and historic “We’re saying Kaddish for you,” and after that, a “Never Again” attitude. My father’s side of the family was much more reserved, without the Askenazic roots, but they were also shaped by the past.

My grandmother’s grandmother (or great-grandmother), who was from a wealthy Southern family, and all this happened long enough before 1865, that I don’t want to know about these people, honestly. But this many greats grandmother, who, I am not making this up, was named Blanche, was disowned by her family, because she eloped with an Irish Catholic. I don’t remember his first name off-hand, but his last name was FitzPatrick.

FitzPatrick was alone in the US-- no family here, good friends, though. Along with one of them, he got excommunicated for nun-napping.

After that, he started practicing Judaism, and he and Blanche moved to New York for a fresh start, along with all the Jews from Europe arriving for a fresh start. That’s how my grandmother and grandfather both happened to be there just before the Depression to meet and fall in love.

After what they went through, they never wanted another estrangement in their family, and worked hard to teach their children patience and diplomacy. Seriously, my father could have been very successful as a diplomat. His brother sort of was, albeit, a corporate diplomat, not a foreign diplomat.

My husband’s uncle had a few people who wouldn’t talk to him, including his ex, his son, and his niece. I’m not sure he understood why, but i know why from only hearing his side of the story. (He was emotionally abusive towards his wife and son. He might have sexually abused his niece, or more likely, just made her very uncomfortable with his sexual persona.)

I’m not thinking of a lot of other people who have totally cut off contact in my circles, though i know a lot of adults who aren’t terribly fond of their parents and have limited contact, for a variety of reasons. My husband mostly avoided his father, but his father divorced his mother when he was a kid and the father then moved to another state to avoid paying child support while my 6-yo husband ended up caring for his alcoholic mother and surviving on her welfare payments. And my husband tells of visiting his father and stepmother, and the dad was asked if he wanted more kids, and he said, “no, i won’t make that mistake again”. Yeah, my husband was abandoned, both emotionally and financially, and i think his dad understood that.

This seems irrelevant, as i think what kids want from their parents is love and emotional support and acceptance. I mean, they want to be fed, too. But, for instance, if FIL had shown love for my husband on the mandatory visits, i think my husband would have forgiven him for leaving his alcoholic wife.

My brother hasn’t spoken to my dad for about 40 years.

My dad was in the military and would be away, and then back, for days at a time. He was very strict. I remember a few spankings with a belt, and hour-long lectures when we’d done anything wrong. Things like that didn’t happen a lot, but by modern standards some of it would probably be considered abuse.

My brother is probably somewhere on the autism spectrum. He’s very introverted. He and my dad never got along or understood each other, and I don’t know if either ever really tried. My parents divorced when my brother was about 18. Dad made a few efforts at keeping in touch, but my brother brushed them off until they just stopped talking.

I’m not super close with either of them these days. I’ll trade e-mails with my brother when something important comes up. I talk to my dad on the phone and see him every couple years. He asks how my brother is, not that I have much to tell him, and he’ll sometimes say “I don’t know why he hates me,” but he’s never actually asked me about it. I’m not the most emotionally aware guy, myself, but I never really got the sense that he’d done any soul searching on the matter. If I had to guess, it’s like he wants to be absolved without having to admit there’s anything to be absolved for.

How would my brother answer if asked why he cut off contact? I don’t know if he’d be able to put it into words. He and I have never talked about it. If my dad, or anyone else in my small family, asks, I guess my answer is that we both grew up scared of him.

Very interesting responses, even (especially?) the ones that defend the children’s choice to cut their parents dead. I do wish those who did that could supply something more like reasons than “he couldn’t put it into words” and the like. I’m horrified of course by the stories of those who’ve experienced genuine trauma–sexual abuse, physical abuse, deprivation–and am grateful to my own parents who inflicted on me nothing worse than their own neuroses: my mom was a bit bossy, my dad a bit withdrawn, though both made me feel loved and wanted while I was growing up. Maybe that’s why I can’t imagine easily why someone would cut their parents dead.

Do the abusive parents–the child-beaters, the sexual predators, the skinflints–really profess to be utterly puzzled by their children no longer speaking to them? Do they deny having done what they did? Do they justify it? Have they repressed all memory of it?

Well, yeah.

All three? There is a considerable difference, you know.

My father thought he was being a good parent when he whipped me bloody with a belt. He thought he was teaching a lesson and instilling discipline. He said so. And if I were to ask him about it now, I assume he would barely remember it, because he considers it unremarkable, a normal act in the course of being a normal father.

Edit to add: This is the major contributor to my choice to wait until later in life to have my own kids. I needed time to come to terms with my past and find my own form of peace. I didn’t want there to be any risk at all that I would continue the mad cycle of violence.

MadMonk28 beat me to it. This is exactly the link I was going to post, and hoped had already been posted.

Many parents deep down know perfectly well why their kids cut them off (I say this as someone who’s considering going no-contact with my mother, father, or both.) But some are so far deluded or narcissistic that they genuinely are too deep in to figure it out.

Again, though, you may be hearing just one side of the story. It could also be that these same single/divorced mothers also were an absolute nag, berated their kids loudly for hours at a time, removed bedroom doors so that their kids would have no privacy, forced them to go to church every Sunday even if running a 102-degree fever, forbade them from getting vaccinations, euthanized their healthy pets against their will, etc.

My dad’s brother died about a year ago. I went to the service with my dad and stepmom. I don’t remember how the subject came up, but my dad and another man there were briefly reminiscing about how they knew they were in trouble when their dads would take off their belts to get ready to spank them. I remember thinking that that could be the breakthrough when he realized how scared he made us. But no, the moment came and went. Either he doesn’t realize that he turned into his dad, or doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with it.

As I said, he may express confusion over why my brother doesn’t have any contact with him, but he’s never expressed any openness to finding out the answer.

The story doesn’t say they cut her dead - they might not have. They might even visit a couple of times a year. It could have just have been easier to move than to try to convince her to let them live their own life.

Well, yeah, but the story still omitted the whole middle phase, whatever it was.

Well, my parents used to bicker a lot like George Costanza’s parents did, and one thing they bickered about was why my 15 years older sister didn’t come home as much (that bickering isn’t the reason btw).

At any rate, they were constantly negative, critical, image-focused and judgemental.

There was never any evidence that they “got” that they weren’t perfect.

I didn’t quite cut my parents dead permanently - but I’ll bet my mother thinks I did, since I hardly speak to her and see her maybe 6 times a year - and I live 15 minutes away. She would certainly tell you she has no idea why but here is a partial list of the reasons -

I was always treated somewhat worse than my siblings because I was the oldest. But not by much - there were 4.5 years between me and the youngest of the four of us. In some respects they couldn’t help it - I suppose they might really not have been able to help me with college tuition but then maybe instead of paying youngest sister’s full tuition, they could have also helped with tuition for my last year ( it took me 5 years since I had to work to pay my own tuition). But it was ridiculous for her to tell 14 year old me to cook for my 12 year old brother when I had been cooking since before I was 12. Especially since he was never told to cook for the 2 younger ones, not even when he was 15 or 16.

At some point, I managed to get a bedroom in the basement. After I was told he wouldn’t , my brother just moved down there one day. My mother’s response was that she hadn’t said it was OK but he stayed there anyway.

When I was planning my wedding she wanted to make all the decisions. She complained that my wedding wasn’t as fancy as some of her cousins’ kids - but their parents paid for it and she didn’t pay for a dime of mine. She did make sure that my youngest sister could move into my basement bedroom ASAP - which due to the garbage pick-up schedule meant my bed had to go into the trash on Thursday night, so I spent my last two nights in that house on the couch.

When my husband and I went house shopping, she was annoyed we didn’t bring her along. She thought she should have a say in which house we bought. She babysat at my house once and I came home to find my entire kitchen was re-arranged because I didn’t keep things “in the right place” as defined by her. She was never in my house again without me there. My husband and I were arguing about something once, and when I told her to butt out her response was “It’s my house” as if that gave her the right to jump in.

After my father died and the house was hers, she wanted to leave her house to her four kids in some way that she couldn’t actually do. So she sold the house to one sister for 100K , disinheriting the rest of us. The house was worth over a million dollars at the time.

I had a fight with my youngest sister - the day before my daughter’s wedding, my sister was texting me asking what her husband should wear to the dinner that night. As I’m driving to the hotel my mother calls me for some reason and offhandedly mentions what a shame it is that “Shelly” won’t make it. My sister never called me, never called my daughter to wish her well, told me she didn’t have her number blah blah. She complained to my mother , who proceeded to make excuses for her as she always did.

Now I’m retired and my mother complains I don’t see her often enough and wants me to take her shopping and to the cemetery and so on - and doesn’t understand when I say I didn’t get the million-dollar gift. Because that’s the only thing she understands - she will tell me that none of the other things happened and I’m imagining things.

No one outside the immediate family will know any of this- and If she tells her friends I barely talk to her and she has no idea why , they will believe her. She might even believe it herself. But I have told her and she says it didn’t happen.