Specific question about estranged families

In My Humble Opinion
81

That’s a really good point.

I have some neighbors, an elderly couple, with some very cute dogs. They loved to bring the dogs by our house so our girls could love on them.

But then the guy got weird.

He brought over some sweet little gifts for the girls, and mentioned at the time that he couldn’t give them to his grandkids because his kids had cut off ties with him. I barely knew the guy and felt like he was over sharing, so I smiled sympathetically and changed the topic.

A few months later we saw them at a park. He pulled me aside and started grilling me: he hadn’t seen us outside as much lately with the kids, and were we avoiding him? was it something he’d done? I assured him it wasn’t, which was true, but inside I was like, okay, buddy, NOW it’s something you’ve done, you’re being a weirdo here and it’s freaking me out.

I definitely got vibes from him that it’d be real hard to be his kid.

82

A lot of times when adult children cut off their kids from grandparents, they are trying to protect their kids in a way their own parents never did. That is why they will not just cut off the abuser, but the other parent who didn’t stop the abuse.

83

Go back and reread the posts where I said (a) my father is a nonentity about whom I have no feeling, and (b) I owe him nothing.

Your “paraphrase” violently contradicts both of these.

84

It helps to be aware that often, the parents that claim they’ve provided every material thing, even extravagance, and yet the children are unmoved, are very often, showering their children with material things in an attempt to make up for not being emotionally available. Can’t make your graduation, but here’s a savings bond!

Then the parents goes around telling people I gave them EVERYTHING! Every material thing others would envy. But the child knows this trade off well and isn’t moved. They’ll squander that cash and crash that car, attempting to get a real connection, even if it’s an angry one.

Be highly suspicious of parents who claim to have given them everything!

85

Yup, a lot of times these parents have this little mantra that they repeat over and over, not just to anyone who will listen, but to themselves. They are rewriting history and probably come to believe it.

86

FFS. Had I cut them off my answer to this would be “what exactly the fuck is in it for me to do any of that? It would be painful and I guarantee you that they still wouldn’t get it”.

I’m struck by how many of us on this board survived abusive parents. Sending good thoughts to all of you. I get it.

87

Me, too. I never realized how many of you I would need to extend my sympathy to for this one specific trauma you’ve survived. It’s appalling, really, how many of you have been raised in cold, abusive, even sadistic households and gone on to become well-adjusted and decent adults.

88

No kidding. Chunks of money can warp people, and the thing about intergenerational wealth transfer is there are never clear rules or customs as to how they should work.

I get along great with my Mom and got along great with my Dad (he died ten years ago) so I can’t really relate. My mother has at least a million dollars in assets that would be passed on to my sister and I when she dies. My philosophy is that the money doesn’t exist or that she’ll live to be 100 and will need it all (which actually is a quite realistic scenario) so I’m free of worrying about it.

89

My two best friends cut their mothers out of their lives due to severe physical and sexual abuse as children. I’ve never met their mothers, nor do I want to knowing what their sons went through, but I’m sure they complain about their ungrateful children without ever going near the reason why they went no contact. If their mothers tried to give them any amount of money, both of my friends would drop it on the floor and leave it there. Sexually abusing children, or failing to protect them from said abuse, isn’t the kind of thing you bring up in casual conversation.

90

Well, no, I don’t. I’m mainly talking about the loving, supportive households I got to witness, up close and personal for decades on end, with nary a sign of conflict, or resentment from their smiling, outgoing, friendly kids. I just mention the money stuff to rule out that out as a cause for estrangement–money is a relationship-killer so I want to make clear that these kids have never wanted for anything in their lives and, for the most part, got indulged with gifts (and allowances, and tuitions, as well as attention) that I have never gotten, nor have I given (because I couldn’t afford it or my parents couldn’t afford it) in my life. This isn’t the parents telling me how generous they were, this is me observing the cars the kids drove, the vacations they got to take, personally in case after case, and thinking “Wow, have these nice kids got it cushy.” But no way is money my main evidence, it’s just a way of defusing an easy explanation that doesn’t apply here.

91

My Mom is wonderful and loving. I could not have asked for a better mother. My Dad was basically broken and had many problems. He got that way because his mother was an evil bitch. I honestly cannot remember her being kind to anybody even once or being generous in any way ever. She was cold, cruel and demanding. I disliked her for literally as long as I can remember. My sister and I caller our maternal grandmother Bubby. It is a term of great affection and respect. We called our paternal grandmother, Ginny. She never showed us (or anybody else) affection or respect. When I was seven or so, I aske my Mom “Why don’t I like Ginny?”. My Mom was torn between a desire to answer honestly and her desire to see the best in every body. She chose the first and said “Years ago, she called you stupid.” Ginny went beyond being cold and distant. She was actively cruel and evil in small ways every day.

The only reason we didn’t cut her out of our lives is that her second husband, my Zeyde Herman was a wonderful, loving, giving and wise man. For reasons I still don’t understand, he was deeply in love with Ginny and utterly devoted to her. When she was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and everybody said to put her in a home, he refused and cared for her himself. When things had progressed far enough that he could not care for her at home, he put her in the nicest care facillity he could afford. He visited literally seven days a week from the start of visiting hours until the end of visiting hours. When Ginny died, rather than going with the simple pine box with rope handles coffin dictated by Jewish law, he insisted on a fancy coffin. He was heartbroken at her funeral. The rest of us wanted Ginny buried face down in case she tried to dig her way out.

Had Zeyde Herman died before Ginny, I would have had zero problems cutting her out of my lfie.

92

All of my Siblings treat everybody in the family like garbage.
BTW–my Dad was liked & popular, by his customers, neighbors & co-workers.
He was a physically & emotional abusive drunk, to his family. I was the only one with him, holding his hand, as he died,.

93

And we keep telling you that you are probably just seeing a facade. If you read the links, estranged parents claiming to be baffled by why their children cut them off is a recurring theme and the estranged parents use exactly the language you are using. A lot of these parents are incapable of hearing and internalizing why they were cut off.

94

It says a lot about you that you were able to forgive him, I am sure it meant a lot to him also.

95

I have friends whom I love. Their children are estranged. They’re good friends but very critical and shaming parents. When one of them criticises my clothing or haircut, I can say something like “You’re not who I dress for” and they laugh. If one of their adult children did that, there would be massive uproar. Parent and friend relationships are different. These friends have cut off other friends for some vaguely described “unsupportiveness.” I’m aware that at any time, I could suddenly be cut off for an unknown or, from my perspective, minor reason. If I were their child, this would have many more emotional consequences.

ETA: My parents were really deliberate about not using shame-based strategies, and didn’t have substance abuse issues. This makes it easier not to get sucked into anyone convincing me that I deserve certain forms of criticism, ridicule, or physical abuse.

96

Several threads have seemed to suggest that in a majority of cases, the estrangement reflects some shortcoming on the parents’ behalf. I have no doubt that that is the case in SOME situations. But I would also wager that in some situations it is the kid who is more to blame. And I’d place my biggest bet on there being plenty of blame to spread around to both estranged parties.

My impression is that with the past couple of generations, there has been an increased propensity for young adults to blame their parents - and especially their mothers - for anything that is less than optimal in their adult lives. In several instances, the young adults seem to have arrived at that conclusion following some counseling. Such “blaming parents” seems different than anything I recall from when I was a young adult in the 80s-90s.

I wonder if one factor for estrangements is unrealistic expectations going both ways. Do parents expect their kids to be perfect, successful, and perpetually grateful? And do young adults expect their parents to be supportive in exactly the ways the young adult wishes, while respecting “boundaries” in areas that they do not desire their parents’ input?

As several responses have indicated, in many cases estrangement may just reflect a gradual growing apart, realizing that your parents/children aren’t the sorts of persons who really add a lot of positive energy to your lives. Rather than any real excessive toxicity on either side.

97

Something I don’t think has been brought up yet: some parent/child pairings just don’t work. Basic personality traits don’t mesh, what one person needs the other person doesn’t want or isn’t able to give for some reason.

I witnessed this with my best friend from grade school until college. She was a naturally quiet girl, studious, utterly fascinated by mathematics. Also somewhat socially awkward – I don’t think she was autistic (that wasn’t a commonly known or used term in those days) but looking back, she probably ticked at least some of those checkmarks. She was one of three girls, and the other two were much like her mother. Naturally social butterflies, popular, into the ‘normal’ girlish things, like fashion and beauty and dancing and so on.

Her mother would have been appalled at the suggestion she mistreated that daughter. She was just trying to get that daughter to ‘open up,’ ‘show her feminine side’, 'join the other daughters in their shopping trips/acting in school plays/taking dance lessons and all that stuff.

But to, let’s call her Marcy, all that was horrible. The idea of “prancing around” on a stage to be stared at gave her nightmares, she saw no point at all in wearing makeup, she wanted to be in the Math League not the Drama Club, and so forth. The fact that her mother forced her into doing many of those things WAS abuse to her.

Add in that her mother never once displayed any interest in her science projects or her winning state level math meets while never failing to spend hours sewing costumes for her sisters’ dance recitals let alone attending them all… It was emotional neglect, though I’m sure the mother never set out to deliberately hurt her.

They just didn’t mesh. I bet her mother was equally hurt when Marcy didn’t appreciate the efforts her mom put into the costumes she sewed for her inevitable back-of-the-background forced performances.

Marcy got a scholarship to a top level tech university and I don’t think she ever came back home even once, not even for token holiday visits or her sister’s weddings. “I was born into the wrong family,” she told me. “I don’t hate them, we just are incompatible.”

98

Yeah - I was going to say something along those lines, but didn’t want to go on too long.

Kids don’t get to pick their parents, but the opposite is true as well. When my kids were young, I stupidly thought when they grew up we would all be best friends. Like I said - stupid. None of us are estranged from each other, but if we weren’t family, I’m not sure how good of friends we’d be.

99

Reading the entirety of this link (including the sub-headings) leads me to believe that, aside from issues related to addiction or mental illness, the majority or indeed vast majority of instances of estrangement by adult children are due to some sort of unrepented abuse by the parents: Down the Rabbit Hole: The world of estranged parents' forums | Issendai.com

It’s a fascinating and frustrating read.

100

My dad was a highly functioning alcoholic and an extreme workaholic. He was a cruel narcissist and nearly everyone who knew him socially would concur that he was one of the biggest assholes they have ever known.

Nothing was good enough for mom. Nothing. If I brought home an A-, why wasn’t it an A. If I got an A on a test, why wasn’t it 100%? I wish I was exaggerating. Despite my objective excellent success in life, I still have crippling imposter syndrome. Oddly enough, I actually like her as a person but I don’t love her. Admittedly she is an outstanding grandma but I don’t have kids.

My step-mom is so over the top self absorbed that it’s difficult to describe. She dangles the inheritance in front of us to try and bend us to her will. Unlike my sisters I never bowed down and after decades I have earned her respect.

My step-dad left his young children in shitty situations in Illinois to move to California to be with his affair partner/my mom. He was a loser who couldn’t keep a job and pretty much wasn’t good at anything. He had a violent temper and beat me on several occasions. Mom stayed with him anyway and he does take very good care of her.

The second marriage for both of them were/are embarrassingly dysfunctional. Witnessing that was torture. I spent a lot of time at friend’s houses whose parents were great to me.

Don’t blame the kids @Dinsdale unless you are one of the kids. Now my blood is boiling and I’m off for a bit.