My Wife and I don’t have kids. With where we live, and our lifestyles (yes plural) it just doesn’t fit. That and the fact that -
We didn’t marry until we where in our late 30’s
and -
Neither of us has any desire for kids.
Pretty much makes it a no brainer to be childfree/less or what ever.
Now, we do have two dogs and a cat, so we are not completely incapable of being responsible for something that depends on us. But that’s plenty.
Anywho, I’ve never had anybody give me grief or even suggest that we should have kids. It would pretty much floor me if they did. MYOB. Not sure If anyone has pestered my wife.
IMHO, there are two many people in the world as it is. Two or three kids, OK. Maybe even four. More than that and again IMHO, the parents are the ones being selfish/irresponsible.
I was married in my early 20s, and we were married over 10 years before we had our first kid. No one ever gave us one iota of grief about this. It was never my experience that anyone gave two shits as to whether I was childless. Maybe I was just lucky and somehow dodged all this constant haranguing that apparently happens.
And then I read articles about people being bothered about only having one child. Most people who have more than one child (twins excluded, I guess), had only one for some period of time. Myself included. Again, no one bothered us about this.
Where are these people living that strangers on the street are consistently talking about their reproductive choices?
Five of those ten childless years were on the island of Manhattan, and nary a shit was given about our lack of children. Maybe it’s limited to the upper east side?
Well, I don’t live in the City, I live upstate. But I can totally imagine NYCers not even caring! Up here people get more in your business.
Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t get offended at the mere idea that someone said “You should have kids”. It’s the people who tell me I am not a real woman, or that my life will never be fulfilled without kids, that annoy me. It’s the same people who say the REAL America is in the country! What are the people in the cities, chopped liver?
Can we at least acknowledge that when people say, “You should have kids!”, sometimes it’s because they think you would be a great parent. And sometimes they are saying this because children brought so much joy to their lives, (often with unexpected intensity), that they just want you to know that joy!
When you’ve done something, that brings you enormous joy, it’s hard to resist telling everybody, “You should try it!” In my experience people imagine they’re being judged much, much more than they really are.
Actually, I’d say that all of these are highly personal, the last one most of all. Because the last one is the only only one that will be used to assess a person’s character. If I say I don’t want to have kids because I value my independence, I come across as selfish. If I say I don’t want to have kids because I don’t think I’d be a responsible parent, then I’m basically saying I’m an irresponsible person. If I say I don’t like children, I must be evil. If I say I have emotional issues that would make caring for children stressful, then I’m admitting I’m a nutcase. Those other reasons garner sympathy and understanding, at least. The last puts you in a “no win” situation.
That’s why I don’t give a reason when people ask the “why” question. I just shrug and say something vague like “It’s just not in my cards, I guess.” And then I try to change the conversation.
God yes, I hate this. It’s even worse when it comes to not wanting to date or be married. Certain people just keep telling me I’ll be happier if I do what they want instead of what I want.
And yes, I do always follow up the “married, children, boyfriend?” question with “no, and I’m happy single” because I do not want to hear the “you’ll meet someone” or have someone try to set me up. I hate that.
My experiences have been more like yours than like the OP’s.
I don’t doubt that there are childless* people who never, ever wanted kids, and are happy they don’t have them, just as there are certainly single people who never, ever wanted to get married and are happy they didn’t.
Good for them! I’m glad they’re happy. I’d never try to change either group’s collective minds. And even if I wanted to, what could I possibly do to make unwilling people procreate? To steal a gag from radio host Mark Steyn, nobody is going to kidnap childless folks at gunpoint, tear off their clothes, lock them in a room and play chicka-chicka-wow-wow music until they’re in the mood to breed.
Everybody’s had different experiences, obviously, but let me sketch out two hypothetical women, then offer two scenarios.
“Sheila” is a well-educated 38 year old woman. She and her husband have high-paying executive jobs, plenty of money, two dogs, and an active social life. They travel a lot, eat at fine restaurants a lot, and have no desire to spoil all this by having kids.
“Samantha” is a 38 year old stay-at-home Mom with 5 kids, ranging from 15 down to 4. Her husband has a decent job, but they’re far from rich. Most of the kids wear hand-me-downs, and they buy most of their food at Costco.
No, here’s the big question: which of the following do you expect happens more often?
Strangers telling Sheila, “You’re really selfish, you know that” or “You have an obligation to propagate the species” or “Don’t you know how unhappy you’re making your parents”?
Strangers telling Samantha “Haven’t you ever heard of birth control” or “What are you, a Mormon” or “Don’t you know there’s a terrible population explosion going on?”
I can’t speak for everyone, but I have SEEN scenario #2 several times myself.
*Childless strikes me as a perfectly neutral word. All it means is that you don’t have children. “Child-free” is obnoxious editorializing- it sounds like “fat-free” or “cancer-free.” The suffic “free” carries a strong implication that the thing you lack is something horribgle that nobody would ever want in the first place.
And others have seen or experienced scenario #1 several times. I wouldn’t be able to guess which one is more common.
I would guess like several others in the thread that harassment or judgment about not having kids varies in region or culture. Also that it would HUGELY affect women more than men.
I’m a single woman with no kids, and I luckily haven’t received very much judgment on either thing. One friend did say something about how women who don’t want kids are selfish, but she was saying it as a more general thing, not specifically directing it towards me.
I do have several female friends who have gotten married recently. And every single one has said that multiple people have asked them about when they are going to start having kids, sometimes asking in a nicer way, sometimes in a more pushing way. All these friends would like to have kids at some future date, so this thread doesn’t exactly apply, but it’s the same judgment that the childless can get, just “why don’t you have kids yet?” instead of “why don’t you have kids?”.
I was 37 when I had my first one, as well, and I never had those experiences either. And I’m midwest Catholic, so I don’t know if it’s cultural or not. Certainly lots of people around me growing up had large families, but no one seemed to think anything of it that I waited.
I’ll concede this. I just checked with my wife, and while she says she never had anything obnoxious during our childless years, it did come up. For me (male) it was never brought up at all.
I think those who are disturbed by childfree people fall into a number of different categories
some are disturbed by anything that isn’t “normal”
some are disturbed by anyone who doesn’t do / think the same way that they do
some truly believe it is a duty that you are shirking
some truly believe it’s the only way to feel fulfilled or know real love
some never thought about it at all, it’s “just what you do” and finding out you think it’s optional is jarring
some think it’s an essential part of being human / a woman / an adult
some think it’s the most amazing thing that happened to them, therefore it must be the most amazing thing for everyone, because they believe it’s universal
some regret it, but are unable to say so
they have some stake in it (i.e, relatives, best friends with children, etc)
I do think the behaviour falls on the bell curve. And those who are disturbed by it (other than maybe relatives), fall on the very far end. I think most people truly don’t give a shit if someone else has kids or not. If they were quizzed on it, some percentage would admit to some level of judgement or bias (because it’s human nature to think your choices were more correct than other choices), but I think most couldn’t care less on a person-to-person, face-to-face level.
And yep, that includes childfree people too. They are varied and don’t have children for a wide variety of reasons. And some are on the vocal, antagonistic, nasty end of the bell curve. But most truly don’t give a shit if you have kids or not either. Because most people care about their own lives much more than anyone elses.
So yeah, I guess I like to think most people are nice, decent and think positively about others. Some small number of people are nosy, clueless, nasty or idiots. And some of those are vocal about it, especially online, but also in real life. And some are in the parent camp and some are in the non-parent camp. I prefer to picture the decent people in either camp vastly outnumbering the non-decent, plus having more in common due to decency. It’s just unfortunate the the decent people are getting on with their lives, but the non-decent are so damned noisy about it!
I do think there are judgmental folks out there, who say things to take the “different one” down a peg or to raise themselves up. But the number of people who are like this is small, in my experience. Most people know how to keep their judginess thoughts to themselves.
I think people who are weird/unusual/different in some notable way must eventually figure out that most people’s questions, while sometimes annoying, aren’t asked out of meanness or judgment. But rather just idle curiosity. That doesn’t mean people’s nosiness should be excused. It’s just that it’s really no worse than what any other misunderstood group faces. I get annoying reactions when I tell people I don’t date, for instance. I’m sure if I told people I don’t eat meat, I’d occasionally come across people who would also give me a hard time. But most people don’t care. And even if they do care, I really don’t care. I have my negative opinions about certain people, too.
That, I think, is part of a larger problem of asshole adults having no idea of what’s appropriate to say to teenagers. Of COURSE a teenager might change her mind about something. But then, she also may not, and the fact that you changed your mind when you got older means diddlyshit about whether a particular teen will. When an adult smugly tells a teen, “you’ll change your mind,” it carries with it an implication of, “your view isn’t valid, it’s only something you believe because you’re a stupid kid, when you’re more mature you’ll agree with me.” And that’s an asshole thing to say, whether it’s about having kids, about politics, about getting along with parents, about anything.
And in addition to being assholish, it has never in the history of our species been persuasive or productive.
When I lived in Chicago very, very few people cared (at least not verbally). The exceptions tended to be highly religious types.
The further out I go from a major city the worse the “you should have kids” meme gets. Some of it seems related to religion, and some to conservative culture and/or values. Combine the two and oh, boy!
