Spiderman 2 -{spoilers}-

Cafe Society
21

This is the purest, high-grade uncut Spider-Man that’s ever made it onto film. They do rush the development of the long-term story arcs a bit, like they’re not going to get to do a third one or something, and I can see why the Salon guy thought the adolescent angst was a bit much – they really ladled it on. Everything that tends to go wrong in Spider-Man’s life did --his aunt was endangered, his girlfriend was kidnapped, he was flunking his classes, missing out on all social events, his powers started acting up, and I mean, just on and on. I personally didn’t ever feel it went overboard, but your mileage may vary. They’re all typical complications in Parker’s life, familiar to any reader. It’s just that they decided to cram them all into one movie – everything except Peter getting a cold. How did they miss that one?

Raimi hit the homages pretty hard, I thought, including some transparent echoes of Superman (running while pulling his shirt open), Superman 2 (Where are you, Superman?), the classic Spider-Man No More issue (ASM 50) and the scene with Spider-Man lifting tons of machinery to save his aunt (ASM 33). Arguably, they even made reference to the wedding issue (ASM Annual 21). I’d have to see it again to be sure, but it was kind of the same dress. They brought in the all-but-forgotten son of Jameson and set up the return of the Green Goblin.

Also, Spider-Man is much more competent this time around. In the first, he had the powers but kept sucking in a fight. Here, the combat is much more like it. They still haven’t managed to squeeze in the Spider-Man wit, but the fights were most impressive. He’s doing web-swing kicks, flinging web-ball punches, grabbing hapless victims out of midair, doing his ninja-flip dodge and haul-back punches. Everything but the wisecracks.

They would have to have fucked up pretty bad for me to at least dislike the film. The truth is, though, they got me right where they knew I was vulnerable. Right in the Uncle Bens, as it were. I mean, I could have just cried in the El scene when after rescuing a train full of people with a ligament-snapping effort that made him scream in pain and the bottomless anguish of a man who has accepted the responsibility for many lives and finds himself, for all his might and unbending will, about to break, about to fail, and when he does not fail, but collapses from the strain, the people he just saved lifted his wounded body Christ-like, passing it hand-to-hand over their heads. Some kids in the theater laughed. I thought perhaps they were seeing through the cheap messianic sentimentality of the moment that I myself was caught up in. Turns out they thought it was funny that people were touching Spider-Man’s butt.

I should probably go see it again.

22

I am about to make a revolutionary break through in physics! Oh, incidentally, I’ve also made revolutionary breakthroughs in artificial intelligence, cybernetics, and neurosurgery. I’ve used them to make a set of inexplicably malevolent waldoes that I wear like a girdle, more or less just for the hell of it. Don’t worry! I’ve installed a control chip. You can see it here, prominently displayed and totally unshielded. So, who wants to see me make a miniature sun?

Seriously, though, I enjoyed the heck out of this movie. Easily one of the best superhero movies ever. I loved the little Evil Dead reference when Ock was killing all those doctors. (Which freaked the hell out of me, so if you’re concerned about the kids, maybe give it a pass.) Funny, too. “He stole that guy’s pizza!” Heh.

23

MJ really needs to make up her mind BEFORE the actual wedding itself. Poor astronaut… what did he do to deserve that?

24

Great moments:

The street musician singing the clasic cartoon Spider Man song.

The elevator scene is one of the funniest scenes ever filmed in a superhero movie.

Bruce Campbell pointing out the shoelace and the tie, then not letting Parker in.

The backflip over the crushed moped was extremely cool.

I didn’t get the purpose of the cake scene with the landlord’s daughter. Was it to demonstrate that Parker could be with another girl if he wanted?

25

I nearly died laughing at the Evil Dead riffs in the operating room. The only way it could have been improved is if Bruce Campbell’s cameo was as the surgeon reaching for the chainsaw rather than the snooty usher.

26

Yeah, Bruce with the chainsaw would have been good, but I like to believe he lost his job as a wrestling announcer and has moved to theater usher in the past 2 years. I don’t think he’d have gotten his medical degree in that time :slight_smile:

Man, his face may have looked goofy, but Tobey really sold that pain when getting his arms stretched like that. He looked like he was about to die! Of course were it me, I’d have tried webbing up the wheels to the tracks first, and I certainly would not have tried to pull a Fred Flintstone to stop the train. But then again I’d probably not put on spider tights every day either.

The CGI was apparent in a few scenes but honestly I can’t complain. No other way to make this movie. And I don’t recall ever complaining that the skeletons in the Sinbad movies looked fake either. Those fights were just outright brutal! I flinched everytime someone was slammed into a wall.

They missed a couple of golden opportunities though. I was hoping when SM and Ock met in the bank, that Otto would have given SM a big slap to humiliate him like when they first met in the comics. (Of course now that I think about it, if he’d accidentally called him “Superman” I’d have peed my pants!) And when MJ ran to Pete at the end and stood in the doorway, there were dozens of times she could have used the immortal “Face it, Tiger, you just hit the jackpot!” line. But she did at least call him Tiger.

This was a fantastic movie that happened to be based on a comic book and I can’t wait to see it on IMAX! Yep, IMAX has told Warner Bros. that they don’t want to show Catwoman now (“effects not ready” they say…) and are talking with Sony in order to whip out an IMAX version of Spidey by mid-July. I will be there soaring through the steel canyons opening day again!

27

Cool movie. It wasn’t Willem Dafoe’s fault, but Doc Oc blew away the Green Goblin. There were a few times that I thought it slowed down a lot for a summer blockbuster, but when the action came, it was great.

You got to love Bruce Campbell showing up in Sam’s movies. I didn’t realize until checking afterwards that Joxor from the Xena series is Sam’s brother. It was funny seeing him there too. I missed Stan Lee though.

I’m glad Sam and Toby worked things out to keep Toby as Spidey. He seems great for the role.

I have to ask something though. I haven’t read a Spidey comic in 20 years. I don’t remember much about them anyway. Does Peter’s being Spidey become fairly common knowledge in the comics like it did in the movie? I was a little surprised at how many people found out in this movie.

28

A few allies have figured it out, like Daredevil and Dr. Strange, thanks to their own powers. MJ has known for about 20 years. It’s been implied that Robbie Robertson knows, but it’s always unspoken – Robbie knows, and Pete and MJ know he knows, and he knows they know he knows, but no one ever says anything outright. There was a quick shot of Robbie in the movie that I think implied that, too. I wish they’d developed Robbie better in this movie – he’s always been a great character.

Excellent movie, by the way. It seems the filmmakers had much more confidence in Tobey Maguire this time around, and he delivered in spades. That el scene, from beginning to end, was amazing.

29

Alfred Molina was great. For RogueRacer, Stan Lee was the guy who pushed someone out of the way of falling debris as Doc Ock was making his way up the building with Aunt May. It was a really brief shot.

Could someone explain something to me? In the el scene, why did Spidey take off/lose his mask? I missed that.

30

When Spidey tried to stop the train by bracing against the tracks with his feet, a lot of debris flew up and hit him in the face. That scratched or smudged the eye-parts of the mask badly enough that he had to take it off to see clearly.

31

Yes…yes, she does.

In the comic books, Aunt May eventually passed away (not too long ago, in fact). It was a big thing, really. That said, towards the end, as Peter is watching over her, he decides to tell her that he’s spiderman.

Her reply: “I know.”
Peter: “But…how…?”
Aunt May: “I do your laundry.”

At least, I think that’s how that went. Does anyone have that issue?
bamf

32

Thanks, AndrewL.

Well, it was fairly long ago, because she’s back now. I’ll leave it to Fenris or some other knowledgeable soul to sort out the retcon, but the current incarnation of Aunt May knows Peter’s identity because she walked in after he’d had the crap beaten out of him and was lying unconscious on his bed in ripped Spidey-togs. That was in Amazing Spider-Man sometime over the last couple of years, but I can’t remember who he was fighting.

33

Man, I can’t believe there was a time that I harbored a germ of doubt that Sam Raimi could make a live-action Doctor Octopus seem credibly menacing on the big screen. I also liked the way that the movie introduces a relatively believable justification for Octavius’ breakdown and villainous rebirth, rather than the comic’s rather sketchy version, to wit: “he was caught in a nuclear accident, and when he woke up he was evil.” Doc Ock is presented as the antithesis of Spider-Man, with a similar tragic origin, and with an alter ego that similarly takes on a dominating life of its own. Although it seems unlikely, I have to admit that I’d like to see this character in the third movie as well. Yeah, he evidently drowned, but we never saw the body recovered, and in the comics that’s practically a guarantee of a return appearance.

Kudos also to Bruce Campbell for somehow packing 45 minutes of smug into a two-minute cameo appearance. I forgot to watch out for any addtitional appearances of Sam Raimi’s Oldsmobile (can’t believe that it only appeared in the flashback, it must be in at least one of the other car chases)…but it’s not as though I’m not going to see the movie again.

One rather striking loose end was the whole foreclosure subplot… are we to assume that Aunt May is out on the street until Movie 3?

34

She did say she found a small apartment. Interesting also are Pete’s money worries. I don’t see those getting better.

Also, I wonder how they’re going to work the Dr. Connors subplot into future movies. I like that it’s there if they want to run with it, but it’s already a sufficient stand-alone reference.

Doc Ock’s arms were creepy. Nice job by the designers.

35

“The Classic” can be seen in Aunt May’s garage when she’s packing up to leave.

As far as Aunt May knowing…

In the movie, it seems like she knows Pete’s secret ID based on that long lecture about heroes she gave him. The looks she gave him were like “yeah, you KNOW what I’m talking about, but I’m not gonna say it.”

In the comics, it was a beautiful-horrible-salvaged mess. In issue 400 of ASM, May confessed that she’d known Peter was Spider-Man for a long time, and always expressed her dislike for Spidey as a way of keeping emotionally distant, knowing he was out getting his butt handed to him on a daily basis, but she let him know that she was always proud of him. Short days later, she died in one of the most touching scenes ever published in comics.

Then co-plotters John Byrne and Tom DeFalco (correct me if I’m wrong, I always get him and the other idiot confused, but I can’t remember his name) came along and decided to wipe their butts with that story and said that the lady that died wasn’t Aunt May but an actress hired by the newly returned Norman Osborn to mess with Pete’s head. He’d kidnapped the real May, but Spider-Man rescued her.

A few months later S-M was in a brawl and was beat to within an inch of his life. He made it home and passed out on his bed with his costume on the floor. Aunt May came by for a visit and found Pete bruised up and a torn costume on the floor.
They had a long talk and May and Pete have reconciled. May has gone so far as to start a personal war against the Bugle for all the bad things they’ve said against Spider-Man. She (and Robbie Robertson and Marla Jameson) is the only one I’ve seen unafraid to look JJJ in the eye and tell him what she thinks of him.

36

Miller wrote:

It’s all one field, and it’s caled Advanced Science. Reportedly, it’s easier to understand than T.S. Eliot.

He made those smashing, rending, retractible-bladed appendages for peaceful purposes, but he saw Spider-Man standing there, and he just couldn’t resist.

They needed a visual representation of the man-vs-machine psychodrama. Personally, I would have had a big toggle switch that said “good” and “evil” with corresponding green and red lights. Whenever he tried to reach for the switch, the big arms would smack his hand out of the way.

elfbabe wrote:

He contrated Space Spores and went evil.

37

Which one was Robbie Robertson? Is that JJ’s right hand? I’m unfamiliar with that character.

38

Didn’t she say she had found an apartment?

People I can remember who know:
Nick Fury
Wolverine
Aunt May
Doctor Strange
Harry and Norman Osborn
MJ
Felcia Hardy (Black Cat)
Venom
Carnage (I think…well, maybe not)
JJJ found out a few times, but Parker convinced him otherwise
Robbie often has implied knowledge
And many others…

One thing that kind of bothered me…Throughout the comics, one of Peter’s main problems was that he couldn’t let anyone know who he was, lest there be severe disturbances in the force. As a reader, you always wanted him to tell his secret, but even when he got up the nerve, something always stopped him. This frustration was annoying, but I liked it. It seems like many of movie Spidey’s problems were solved by just giving away his identity. I’m glad that the director found important reasons for him to do this, but I felt as if maybe it was too easy for him.

39

You don’t pull the mask of the old Lone Ranger…

In the el fight, some sort of burning debris (or maybe Doc Oct did something?) got up in Spidey’s mask, causing him to remove it (cause burning hurts, you see…) As for exactly what it was, it happened rather fast, I’ll need to see it again.

40

Robbie is the black gentleman who tells JJ what’s what. Jameson is the editor-in-chief and Robbie…well I can’t recall his title. I want to say “city editor” but basically he deals with the day-to-day duties.