Spoiled teen or am I just a grumpy old lady?

In My Humble Opinion
141

(Bolding mine.)

Ah yes. The clustering illusion of the smug parent. Realise that using your own kids as the sample does not prove your superior skills, so you might want to hold off on the grand pronouncements.

In this game of absolutes you seem to have concocted here JR Brown, for the record, I don’t know how may trainwrecks I’ve seen of kids whose parents gave constant and exclusive choices from too young an age. They ended up stressed, medicated and in therapy; and amphetamine addicted as adults. Jail time for a couple. Privileged upbringings too, some of them. Generations of money. Highly educated and successful extended family. Parents who neither raised a voice, nor batted an eyelid regardless of how many obscenities their 9-year-old hurled at them, and how many boys experienced the pink fluffy handcuffs on their still-in-high-school daughter’s bed.

I mean, gee. These were kids whose parents let them “…live independently, make their own decisions, *(and) *express their desires and opinions cogently.” So I don’t know what difference there must be in the way you do this marvelous thing, it’s just that it’s such a shame that everyone else gets it so very wrong.

Kids are people, and people, by sheer nature, are fuck-ups of varying degree. Mostly, and always firstly, the parents are blamed. So I see why you, as the perfect parent, spring like an edgy cougar there, to so vehemently defend your position.

I am a little intrugued by your mention that the parenting win is producing someone who can “…express their desires and opinions cogently, and negotiate life with other people in a hopefully mutually satisfactory way.” Seamlessly it seems! Like your children are your own blank canvas, with maybe just the very best of you, and the very, very best of someone else’s 23-chromosome contribution.

To imagine that is to imagine the one foolproof method that takes only your singular and combined parental efforts alone, to determine exactly how your kid turns out.

I can’t seem to find in any of my posts my Declaration of The Point of Raising a Child, but the superior parenting skills you assert would necessitate psychic ability, so I guess I shouldn’t be so taken aback. Still, I’m sure I’ve never, ever said even silently, in my own head when no-one else was looking, that a parent’s outcome is to produce “silent, obedient automaton.”

That’s what schools, governments, technology, media, and global corporations are for.

You won’t find out how effective or not your ‘philosophy’ on child-raising is for decades to come JR Brown. You won’t know for generations - so I think your claim of victory on parenting is a little premature.

142

But is it possible to exert authority without scorn, contempt, hostility and menace? Because that’s what I get from both your posts. Regardless of how you meant them, that’s how they come off.

143

It doesn’t sound like she spoke up, though. Whining is not speaking; its a form of communicating ones’s displeasure using a manipulative emotional display rather than true language skills. In the context the OP describes, not only was the daughter’s immaturity grossly apparent but she was also rude as hell.

If a guest is present, being hospitable is the way to go. That often means letting them pick where to eat. Life is not a democracy, the squeakiest wheel is not always entitled to their way, and being able to suck up minor inconveniences will take you farther in life than the short-term gratification of eating at a restaurant vs a diner. Sounds like the kid is not learning any of this from her mom, and I heartily support the OP for judging them both for that.

144

I am familiar with Norm’s, having grown up in LA, and I now live in Pennsylvania, which is home to the canonical diner. Norm’s is definitely within the purview of the canonical diner. Happy now?

Now that that question has been solved, back to the issue at hand. As the mother of a teenager (Jesus, where did the time go?), I agree with Anaamika. The sprog is, for the most part, well-behaved, but when he has to go somewhere he doesn’t want to go, or if he has to do something he doesn’t want to do, he behaves like an asshole so he can get out of it. If it’s somewhere he doesn’t have to go, like the supermarket, he stays home or sits in the supermarket’s cafe and reads a book or plays on his phone while I shop.

I will say that there are some battles that aren’t worth it. It’s not necessary for the sprog to accompany me on every single errand I have. I save the arguments for the times when it is, and I make it a point to take a break so we can both recharge.

145

OP probably did the same thing as a teen. Kids whine, they complain, that’s what kids do. Most adults do the same thing at various times, they probably don’t even realize it.
OP just turned into an old “get off my lawn” person with overly high expectations of others.

146

Rilchiam, thanks for that, but I have no jurisdiction over what goes on in your own head. You can read and interpret my posts any way you like - I know that once I hit that ‘Submit Reply’ button, it’s outta my hands.

Funnily, I actually read your curt post as scornful and hostile; and I really don’t see any exertion of authority on my behalf. The most contemptable and menacing statement I can identify is JR Brown’s opener, but that’s the beauty of internet forums. People see things differently, and if they want to express that, they can.

147

Let me rephrase, then.

Is it possible to exert authority over a child or teenager without scorn, contempt, hostility and menace towards them? Because that’s what I get from the scenarios you presented in your posts.

148

I appreciate the clarification Rilchiam, but as your question favours the extreme end of the spectrum with the implication of mutual inclusivity, I find it six times impossible to answer:

Depends on the situation.
Depends on the age and personality of the child or teenager.
Depends on the relationship with the child or teenager.
Depends on what former diffusing methods have been tried.
Depends on how much time and effort I have to spend as another fallible human being.
Depends on whether or not I think it will produce a useful outcome.

The world isn’t full of soft feathers and fairy floss, nor is it a hair-trigger metal bear trap. But when you intentionally step outside the realms of what you know is generally acceptable behaviour, it’s good to learn that you don’t always know what you’re gonna get.

Edited to add hey**, you with the face**, I agree with what you’re saying. Sometimes, someone’s just gotta suck it up.

149

In other words, for you, no.

150

If you’re intent on being so black-and-white about it, then yes. I am a monster.

151

No cookie for you!

152

Well, it is black and white. The way you said to treat the kid was mean spirited and jerkish. It was more about asserting dominance than actually parenting the kid. There is no call for it when you have other choices.

There have been multiple ways given here to deal with the kid that do not require treating the kid as subhuman. You can actually care about how your kid feels while still doing your job as a parent. The choice is not between letting them do whatever they want and taking away their autonomy.

Tons of parents have treated their kids with a modicum of respect and had them come out fine. On the other hand, kids that have overly strict parents usually wind up acting out as soon as they are out from under their parents’ control.

The only reason I didn’t say anything before is that your kids are purely hypothetical. I assumed that, like most people, you would realize your strategies wouldn’t work once you had kids. That you would actually love them, and not just treat them like some blank canvas you can write on.

They aren’t. They are full human beings. You can guide them, but you can’t control them. If it were that simple, there wouldn’t be brats like the ones mentioned here. Heck, I’m pretty sure that laissez-faire parenting is just an extreme overreaction to overly strict parenting.

And, no, I’m not a parent. But I can tell when someone isn’t treating someone else with respect, and I can tell you what happens when kids are not given choices. I know plenty of parents who thought they could do “my way or the highway” and found that the kids chose “highway.”

I have a druggie cousin because of it.

153

No - but Muffin and a BigT! :smiley:

Hate to break it to you BigT, but it ain’t. Communication is a mulit-faceted, many nuanced thing.

The rest of your post seemed a little confused by what I’d actually said, what you imagined I said and taking wild swings to slay the Terrible Beast that I am, in defense of your cousin. Realise too though, that I had just been denied a cookie, which is crummy thing to do even to a freakish brute…I mean where’s the modicum of respect?

I’m sorry your cousin made the choices they did. At some point, around 25 probably, you can’t blame parents for everything.

Well you can I suppose; but I don’t think it gets you too far.

154

At age 15? I realize that’s still young but it seems well past old enough to know how to act around adults. Let’s all keep in mind that the OP is simply sharing what was going on in her mind; she didn’t act out on her feelings. Maybe some of the suggestions being made here will help her next time to come up with a way to handle the situation that works out for all parties. Also, what the heck kind of adults do you hang around with who whine and complain?