Spoilers and Theories: Obi-Wan's Death in Ep. IV

Cafe Society
1

OK, I THINK I’ve figured out why Obi-Wan is able to vanish when Vader strikes him in Episode IV, yet no other Jedi has been able to do so.

In Episode II, Yoda points out that the Jedi are losing their ability to use the force. Keep in mind that there’s about 9,000 Jedi (or so I’ve read) active by the clone wars, plus about 200 in the temple on Coruscant. My suspicion is that the Force is being “stretched” too much among so many Jedi.

Fans of the Expanded Universe will recall that 1,000 years before, Darth Bane killed all the other Sith because, in his opinion, the Dark Side had spread too thin among so many. The Sith were no longer true warriors, but a bunch of squabbling generals driving themselves to extinction. In his theory, the Sith would be more powerful if the Dark Side were concentrated in one or two…hence, limit it to a master and an apprentice.

It looks like the same thing happened to the positive side of the Force. With SO MANY Jedi and so few true enemies (until Naboo, the Sith were believed extinct), the Force is now being consistently tapped by too many. (Imagine hooking up 9000 motors to the same generator…maybe they’ve all got power, but they’d individually have a lot more if you started to reduce the number). This accounts for a lot of things, like why Jedi have become so darn easy to kill (let’s face it, Qui-Gon dropped like a brick), why they can’t smell a Sith Lord in the same room as them, and why they can’t see the future clearly. Plus, with only two Sith tapping the dark side, they’re probably having a MUCH easier time using their stealth powers.

Isn’t it interesting that Luke had a clear vision of the future when he was on Dagobah, at a time when he and Yoda were the only Jedi left? Again, if they’re the only two people who can tap into the force, it’s going to be a lot more efficient for them; hence, their powers are greater.

So, back to Obi-Wan (who, by the way, is the smartest darn character in Episode II, IMO, because much of what he does is reliance on his own personal intuition rather than the force. I suspect he’s taught himself to use it only as necessary. He acts much the same way in Ep. IV.) By Episode IV, he and Yoda are the only ones left. Full, uninhibited access to the force. When Vader’s about to kill him, he gives the famous line, “Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” What if this isn’t a statement of consequence, but of his own abilities? He’s not saying “Strike me down and I’ll disappear because I’m a Jedi,” but “Strike me down and I’ll make myself vanish into the force before your blade can touch me.” In other words, he’s so able to access the Force at this point, he can just go ahead and “poof” like that. Yoda can do the same thing because, by Episode VI, he and Luke are the only Jedi left. And when Anakin returns to the light, he does the same. (Although, there’s debate over whether Anakin’s body did “poof” in Episode VI. We saw his ghost, but we never saw him vanish.)

Maybe this is what “bring balance to the Force” really means. I’m uncomfortable with this theory only because, if correct, it means that the Force is somehow finite, which seems at odds with the Buddhist roots of the concept.

So…any takers on this theory?

2

Interesting theory. Probably just a happy coincidence, since the writers didn’t make any blantant hints or references to this.

Maybe they originally wanted the source of the Force to be human “batteries” that are plugged into a VR computer grid, a “Matrix” if you will…

3

I don’t have any evidence to back this up–it’s more of a feeling:

I just don’t think the nature of the force is such that there’s a limit on its availability. There’s only so much force to go around? Doesn’t work for me.

4

In a well populated galaxy (billions, if not trillions of beings), I can’t imagine 9200 Jedi are spreading the force too thin.

5

Come on, we’ve been asked to accept that a person’s capacity for tapping into the force can be determined with a freaking blood test. It’s noble metaphysical origins are out the window.

6

Spoiler for Attack of the Clones in reply to Larry Mudd’s comment:


Yeah, but in AOTC, they totally dropped the midichlorian crap, and I for one am willing to pretend it never happened. I’m hoping Lucas & co realize what a stupid, stupid plot device it was and won’t be bringing it back ever again.

7

Check out this George Lucas Interview (about 1/3 the way down the page). I guess George is planning on taking the answer to that question out of the realm of speculation and putting it into the canon.

Of course, the link right below it goes to some “spoiler” that strikes me as total speculation, too

8

Qai-Gon is manifestly the first Jedi to be able to retain vestigial ego after death, although he doesn’t seem to get the blue-ghost deal. (Then again, Obi-Wan came through in Spirit Audio[sup]tm[/sup] before he got the funky visuals, too. First, with his “See Luke… See Luke Run… etc.” gimmick and then with the back-seat driver routine at the Battle of Yavin… and Annie left a corpse to be burned, so the dematerialization stunt isn’t a prerequisite for the Hamlet’s Daddy effect… Until we’re shown otherwise, we’ll have to assume that you have to die in front of Luke for that one.)

9

[hijack]

Trillions? Mere trillions? Please, there’s more than that on Coruscant alone.

[/hijack]

10

More than 1 trillion on Coruscant? What is the total population of a) Coruscant and b) the galaxy?

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ResIpsaLoquitor wrote:
[/quote]
Fans of the Expanded Universe will recall that 1,000 years before, Darth Bane killed all the other Sith because, in his opinion, the Dark Side had spread too thin among so many. The Sith were no longer true warriors, but a bunch of squabbling generals driving themselves to extinction. In his theory, the Sith would be more powerful if the Dark Side were concentrated in one or two…hence, limit it to a master and an apprentice.
[/quote]

I would say that your argument is flawed. There’s no reason to believe that it was a weakening of the Sith’s Force abilities that led Bane to cull the ranks. It is stated fairly specifically (in Phantom Menace and probably elsewhere) that it was selfishness and infighting that brought the Sith down. Each was powerful in his/her way, but they were all too busy backstabbing, trying to gain poewr and get influence with Bane.

Later on, the Sith (Sidious and the apprentice of the hour) are actively involved in trying to subvert and destroy the Jedi. They are acting behind the scenes whenever possible, and doing their best to “jam” their ability to find the source of the evil and unrest. Once the Jedi have fallen and Palpatine is Emperor, he is
(a) too busy controlling the Empire to maintain the interference and (b) too secure in his belief that nobody can challenge him to bother with it.

Qui-Gon is a late-middle aged Jedi who has been exerting himself for some time trying to infiltrate the Theed Palace. Darth Maul is a (presumably) youngish being who has been training all his life for the sole purpose of fighting and killing Jedi. Even so, Qui-Gon put up a very good fight at the end, until a mistake left him open to be killed. As to being unable to sense a Sith lord, see my comments above on jamming. Also, Palpatine is a master of deception and misdirection.

I think the population of Coruscant is closer to 30 billion or so.

12

Crap. Such a brilliant and insightful post, RUINED by a lousy little slash. Friggin’ coding errors. Mods?

13

A couple of things -

If one goes for the esoteric aspects, keep in mind Yoda saying that “size matters not” when he’s training Luke on Degobah and Luke is attempting to levitate his ship. This suggests that the force is not prone to boundaries, and that any boundaries which do occur are ones of perception rather than reality.

Also, the dark side and the light side are not separate entities - they’re aspects of the same thing. To suggest that one could be diluted by numbers would also cause the contrary side to suffer the same dilution.

As to why Obi Wan and Yoda appear to have capabilities not displayed by other Jedi Knights is most likely a result of them merely being further along the path, or if you like, more enlightened.

Most probable of all is that it’s fictional and continuity errors slip in for the sake of poetic telling.

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I think maybe if there are many Jedi then the Force is filled with many strong blips, distracting other Jedi. If those blips are untrained and arrogant then they make more noise causing further distraction. Sidious is using this to his advantage as the dark side thrives on that sort of thing.

That’s my take on it anyway. I expect Lucas to give a disapointing explinatin in Episode 3. Like a virus that kills metachloriants.

15

So you’re a fan of the Brunching Shuttlecocks too? :wink:

16

Qui Gon was giving post death advice? Where? I missed it. I guess that the ghost thing is somehting that really advanced Jedi can do if they want to postpone dying, it’s just that almost none of them know about it.

17

i noticed that obi-wan disappeared much quicker than yoda. he was gone before vader’s saber went completly through him. yoda kinda faded out after a bit.

yoda was a bit surprized by qui-gon’s voice. i’m thinking that anakin creates the shift in the force that allows limited after death help.

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DPWhite, in AOTC, when Yoda is meditating and senses what is happening with Anakin and the Tusken Raiders, you can hear Qui-Gon’s voice at the beginning of the scene. It appears that Yoda is hearing it and doesn’t understand why.

rocking chair, you may be right about Anakin having something to do with it . . . but I wonder if it’s in a different way. He does tell Padme, “I will even find a way to stop people from dying.” Maybe he doesn’t, but inadvertantly shows someone else how to.

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pldennison, I thought that was someone else walking into the room, but I’ll bite: what did Qui-Gon say?

20

qui-gon spoke during anakin’s attack on the tuskin raiders. he said," no, anakin! no! don’t! no!" yoda and anakin heard him. yet master windu, who was with yoda, did not.

thinking about disappearing jedi a bit more. qui-gon is the first jedi to speak from beyond due to anakin’s rage and pain. when anakin is feeling and using the dark side of the force. anakin formed a deep bond with qui-gon. we don’t know what the dead will do in epis. iii, however we know that in iv, kenobi disappears before the death stroke is complete, and vader using the dark side deals that blow. again a deep bond with anakin. from vader’s reaction and poking about of kenobi’s robes, vader has not seen that before. kenobi is able to speak from beyond immediatly. again this happens due to anakin. the next example is obi-wan appearing to luke (who has formed a bond of his own with kenobi) in v. then yoda (bond with luke) in vi slowly disappearing while in luke’s presence.

it has to be anakin’s influence on the force somehow, and effects jedi that he and luke (being his son) form deep attachments to. obi-wan and yoda have at least 20 years to search the force on why this is happening, and how they can use it. anakin is able to appear after death because he started the “after death” thing.