Spoilers for Buffy finale--Two to Go and Grave

Cafe Society
1

Well, I avoided the wildfeed, however, I couldn’t avoid all the spoilers on the spoiler board.
Of course, I focused on Spike spoilers. And I have to say…

YAY!!! REDEMPTION!!! Yay!!!
Ok, I don’t know if it’s redemption yet. Spike gets a soul. If he was tricked into it, it doesn’t help the redemption side. If he chose it, then yay! There are of course other options. We shall see. I’m just excited because James Marsters is an amazing actor, and I think that this really is going to demonstrate how talented he is.

I think this will be enough to get to tomorrow night.

2

I saw something like this coming. Spike made his wish very clear: he wants to be back “like he was,” meaning without the chip.

But “back like he was” can also mean turning him back into William, and I figured this is how it would shake out.

I’m a little surprised, though. I’d have thought the Powers That Be (No, not the ones who send Cordy visions; I mean Whedon, Greenwalt and Noxon) would want to maintain Angel’s uniqueness as the only vampire-with-a-soul.

So will Spike be a vampire with a soul, or will he be brought back to life as William?

I see interesting story possibilities either way. His soul may not come back stained with conscience as Angel’s did, so maybe he’d be a vampire-with-a-soul not necessarily driven to do good.

Or if he comes back as plain old human William, what then? Will he remember his demon exploits? Will he go back to writing poetry? Will he be a weak-ass Scooby?

3

I think he’ll sort-of take on the roll of Watcher.

4

I am a Wildfeed addict. There, I said it, and I feel so much better about myself!

Now, I have questions and theories. According to the spoilers

Spike gets a soul. I believe that he doesn’t just get a soul, but is turned human again. How is Buffy going to feel about this? Or, for that matter, how is Xander going to feel.

It has been bantered about that S7 will be the last for SMG. Does the return of Spike’s soul make him eligible to be Dawn’s Watcher?

I do not necessarily expect Spike to be good, after all, we have been there done that with Angel. But Spike has expressed a keen interest in being a Watcher several times, has he not?

Ideally, Spike should come back somewhere during S7, piss Buffy off so much that she stakes him, then discovers he was human. Arrgghhh, the anguish, the agony, the pathos, the guilt!

5

When has Spike ever expressed a desire to be a Watcher?

Maybe you’re thinking of the dream sequence where Spike was being trained to be a Watcher by Giles. But that was a dream sequence.

6

However, Fiver Restless is kind of the template for seasons 5 and 6, that foreshadows what will happen. Since I haven’t really taken the time to analyze and compare, I can’t comment on it. Though I know others can. I do know that Restless was more than just a bunch of wacky dreams!

7

Here I was expecting this whole thread to be black spoiler space. I’ll add my own thoughts, but first:

DAMN you pepperlandgirl!! Damn you and all your spoilers!! I have now been forced to read them and it’s all your fault!!!

:wink:

[spoiler]I’m not sure I’d call the return of Spike’s soul redemption just yet. How he reacts to the return is of some importance. I’m willing to see how it goes and how (and if) he tries to make ammends. I too am a little bothered by the fact that there are now two souled vamps walking around. Doesn’t this create some confusion regarding some prophecies?

In any event, I’m in wait-and-see mode.[/spoiler]

8

pepperlandgirl:

Of course it was, but I think we’ve already seen all of its foreshadowing come to fruition. In the episode where they all got amnesia we saw Spike wearing his “Restless” suit and thinking he was Giles’s protege.

They’re done with that.

9

You are probably correct. Or maybe I read too much fanfic.:stuck_out_tongue:

10

Well, Trion, I’ve been trying to be a good girl, and not read the wildfeed. I made myself feel better by only reading a few Spike-related spoilers.

Also Trion

Why does it matter how he acts once he gets a soul? David Fury indicated in a recent interview that Anya was forgiven because when she became Human, she was different than the demon who killed, maimed, and destroyed. She didn’t actually have to show remorse.
Also, Spike w/a soul is different from Vamp Spike. Just like Angel is different from Angelus, who is different from Liam. Why should souled Spike have to feel bad for or remorse for what Vamp Spike did?

11

Don’t worry pepper. My own weakness is to blame…

I don’t want to get too deeply into a debate on the subject at least until I see the episode. But I will try to quickly answer your question:

[spoiler]
I do understand that William is different from demon-Spike. But the vampire based it’s behavior on the orriginal William. William doesn’t need to go around hitting himself in the head with a hammer in remorse, but a little shock and horror over what the demon did with his personality and body sounds appropriate to me. Not required but a good indication.

Besides, as others have said, a soul by itself doesn’t make you good. I have no problem letting him prove himself. I’ll probably even be more forgiving than Xander is likely to be. But I do wanna see something. Is that too much to ask?[/spoiler]