Stalls are scary

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Had my fourth flying lesson yesterday and it was, by far, the scariest one. We worked on stalls. (“Pitch up. Hear the stall warning? Ok, pitch up more. Let’s see how it feels when the plane stops flying.” Sounds fun, yes? “Ok, one more time. We’ve got to keep doing it until you’re not scared of them.” This is where I learned to not show emotion :stuck_out_tongue: )

I can’t decide which type was scarier…the full power one (departure stall? I forgot what it’s called) or the low power one. Probably the first one, because of my instructor’s inspirational speech before doing one “If I say ‘Let go’ you will let go of everything immediately. There’s a danger of going into a spin with this type of stall…” etc, etc. Very reassuring. He had to assist me some with the right rudder, which I’d warned him about so he’d be ready to help if I needed it. (Sometimes I don’t press the rudder pedal hard enough.) I’d much rather avoid a spin than give him practice on getting out of one.

Scary as they are though, I know it’s a necessary lesson. Especially because I almost stalled right after we stopped practicing them :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m hoping following lessons aren’t quite as scary…

2

Wait till you learn how to land with defective landing gear.

3

From the title I thought you were referring to bathroom stalls. They can be pretty scary as well.

4

hadn’t thought of that…

shivers

Good thing flying is so fun or I’d be tempted to quit. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, definitely. I’d like to know who these women are that use gas station bathrooms. Actually, maybe I really don’t want to meet them.

5

As you develop a light touch on the controls rather than a tensed-up clutch you won’t have to worry about stalls because you won’t get into them. Pay close attention to the entry to the power off stall during the practicing. You will notice that when you get near the stall you will feel a little buffeting and if you hold the attitude eventually the nose will drop in a full stall.

Airplane wings are “twisted” like a propellor blade only not so much twist. This means that the angle of attack close to the fuselage is greater than that out near the wingtip where the ailerons are. Thus the wing stalls near the fuselage and gives you a warning (in the form of a mild buffeting) to relax back pressure on the stick before the full stall occurs and while you still have lateral control with the ailerons.

Some high performance airplanes have very little of this wing twist and the airfoil stalls abruptly and almost all at once. Don’t fly this type of plane until you have a lot of flying experience. And even then, before you do it solo have someone with a lot of time in one of them give you a thorough check-out.

6

I like stalls! More fun than just punching holes in the sky.

But for real fun, there’s nothing like an autorotation! :slight_smile:

Just imagine that a stall is the world’s biggest roller coaster, and you get to control the drops.

7

My instructor had me doing a fair amount of slow flight and power-off stalls at one point, but if we did any power-on stalls, it was early in my training and I didn’t remember it. On the day of my checkride, I was thinking to myself, “Gosh, I sure hope the inspector doesn’t make me do a power-on stall!” Of course, that’s exactly what happens. I couldn’t get the plane to stall (damn those trainers and their tendency to not want to stall) so he yells at me, “Look, this is how you do a power-on stall!” He then proceeds to yank the yoke back hard, pitching us way back, stalling, then dropping us suddenly. My head was spinning. Heh… I passed my checkride regardless.

8

My training plane is a Diamond Katana. With those little beauties, you not only get to do stalls, but spins as well. I know that spins aren’t allowed in most training aircraft so that is an extra scary little bonus.

9

I’m a flight instructor, so I teach a lot of stalls. But I remember being afraid of them too when I was a student. If you keep flying, and your experience is anything like mine, you may surprise yourself at what you can get used to.

About a year after I got my license I was doing some flying in a friend’s shortwing Piper which had very docile stall characteristics. We couldn’t get it to really “break” in the stall (meaning, achieve a definite abrupt pitch down).

So one day I went out solo and decided I was going to see what it took to really get the plane to stall. I started pulling back abruptly on the yoke to induce accelerated stalls, which usually give a sharper break. Didn’t work. I started diving to pick up speed before stalling. Closer, but still no big break. Finally, I dove sharply, levelled off, then pulled the yoke straight to my gut as fast as I dared. The plane zoomed up, ran out of energy, paused briefly at close to zero speed, and then whipped forward to resume flying. My heart was pounding, but I had most definitely achieved a full break.

As I flew back to the airport, I reflected that a year earlier I was afraid of stalls. Now here I was TRYING to get the plane to stall aggressively. I had never conciously realized I wasn’t afraid of stalls anymore. It was a just a result of continued experience and experimentation, and understanding of what happens aerodynamically at slower speeds.

I’ve had the same experience in aerobatics - what once frightened me became fun over time.

10

Stalls are fun.

Spins are better. Especially on some of the gliders I’ve flown. They do a quick inversion before they spin… Not that they remain in an inverted spin, but just before they invert. I can’t really describe it better than that. It’s like it’s spinning, but instead of the direction the aircraft is going being down, it’s forward, then down.

11

I started getting stalls my second flight lesson.

I was scared of them, too. (So you’re not alone)

I still don’t like them much.

But it does get better with practice. Now it’s “Oh, you want to see a stall?” stall airplane. Recover. “There. There is a stall. Meh.”

You know, the airplane I’m currently flying doesn’t have a stall horn on it…

The only stall warning is the pre-stall buffet. This is both more and less disconcerting. I don’t have to listen to that whining eeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEE business anymore… but it was weird at first to NOT have buzzing going on.

I always found the power-on/departure stalll more anxiety-inducing than the power-off/landing stall.

But neither was as hair-raising for me as the accelerated stalls out of turns or the spins. Both of which I did in part because after those the regular plain vanilla stalls no longer scared the crap out of me.

Sometimes, I think the instructors and their “inspirational speeches” to be part of the problem. How a topic is presented can have quite an effect on the emotions that result.

Learn to use your feet more. This is absolutely vital.

Me, too.

I especially want to avoid an accidental spin.

12

That’s true. I have a slightly unusual way of approaching the subject. I’ve found most students have read about stalls and often have some anxiety about them.

So at some point during training I make a point of driving with them to lunch in my car. Near our airport there is a steep hill where you get that “whoosh” feeling if you take it briskly. I do so, and say to the student, “Feel that? That was worse than a stall in our airplane will be.”

And it’s true. I do most of my instruction in a Warrior, which is quite docile in the stall. I think my students feel better going into the stall lesson having had something familiar to compare it to. And I don’t push them to go too far with the maneuver the first time if they don’t want to.

13

Hammer head, Hammer head, Hammer head, … Wheeeeee\

Seren, If you can’t move the rudder to full deflection, you really need to get your position in the aircraft figured out. Your instructor should not be letting you fly that way IMO. On small trainers at slow speeds, it should not be a strength issue but a position one. You need to adjust something.

14

Absolutely. The Air Force supplied cushions for students who couldn’t reach full rudder travel even with the seal all the way forward. You should be able to move all controls over their full travel.

15

Large Marge’s stall story:

For the duration of my lessons (four months), I was stuck with this little 1963 Cessna 150, held together with rubberbands and duct tape (kidding about the rubberbands). I was part of the 141 program, which meant that I had to follow a syllabus very closely, doing my first solo at 10 hours and then practicing specific maneuvers at certain points in my training.

My instructor was this neurotic red-headed Texan, who, incidentally, was TERRIFIED of power-on stalls. So every time we went up to do them, she would get tense. Her voice got wavery, her eyes got big, she had the yolk in a death grip. Nice qualities in a flight instructor, hu?

Needless to say, when I went out on my first solo (not the takeoffs and landings solo, but out into the practice area) and began my power-on stalls, I was nervous.

In previous power-on stall maneuvers with my instructor, my little 150 ALWAYS stalled to the right, and I was always ready with left rudder. We practiced this maneuver probably 15 times before my first solo. It always responded the same way.

The day of my solo, I flew into the practice area, made sure I was at 3,500 feet agl, and then began to pull the nose of the plane up to stall it. It seemed to take forever - I felt completely vertical - but it finally stalled - TO THE LEFT.

Turns out, when the instructor and her big butt weren’t sitting on the right side of the plane, it stalled the other way, but what did I do in a pure reflex action? I kicked in left rudder.

So here’s the scenario: I’m full throttle, stalled, pointed straight at the ground, only 10 hours of flying time on the books, and IN A SPIN.

Thank GOD I made sure I was at 3,500 feet.

It seemed like FOREVER before I snapped out of it, but it was probably more like 6 or 7 seconds. I kicked in right rudder. I dipped the nose and got wind going over the wings. By then, though, there were so many Gs on the plane that I couldn’t just pull the yolk back; I had to lean forward, put both arms behind the yolk at a 90 degree angle and PULL REALLY HARD.

As I did, I looked out over the left wing and I could see it BOWING under the pressure. After a few seconds, I finally managed to pull it level.

I caught my breath. I looked at the altimeter. I had lost 800 feet and spun around 2 1/2 times. And in all the chaos I’d forgotten to take the power off; it was still at full throttle.

I was supposed to do another 30 minutes of maneuvers. Yeah, RIGHT.

16

Yep, I’d say there was a fair amount of instructor error in your story, Large Marge.

Which why, after more than my fair share of bad instructors, I simply refuse to fly with crappy ones anymore. I’ve suffered enough fools, and worse yet, had to pay hourly rates for them.

And Seren - I agree, you MUST get your seating arrangement/rudder situation straightened out. You MUST be able to get a full throw on those rudders and you MUST teach yourself to do this. I really don’t want to get into scary scenarios for a student only four lessons along, so I’ll just say this is absolutely a safety-of-flight issue.

If your instructor is not willing to get your seating situation straightened out go talk to another instructor about it. Or another pilot. Or spend time in the airplane with extra seat cushions and do it yourself. But get this sorted out quickly. Like NOW. Before you do your next take off. Among other things, you’ll be doing so much better flying the airplane when you’ve got this sorted out you’ll wish you did it on your first lesson.

17

I STILL don’t like stalls, esp power-on ones. I don’t have trouble recovering, but that doesn’t mean I like 'em. With the planes I fly (150 & 172), I pretty much have the yoke all the back to the stop in order to get a stall (and even then it sometimes doesn’t stall)

Brian

18

Yeah, I’m hanging out here waaaaaaay too much, but flying myself this weekend looks iffy at best, so what the heck, I’ll talk about flying…

And I’m having Issues with some of what Seren’s reporting

My personal feeling is that this is NOT a phrase a flight instructor should use with a new student. It induces way too much anxiety.

Likewise, other terms like “break” should be used with caution. They mean something else entirely different outside aviation and your average student arrives at the airport with that baggage in hand. Don’t say “break” say “the nose drops”. After the student gains confidence in his/her skills then you can introduce the more typical terminology.

And yes, the student will hear “stops flying” and “break” and other terms outside of lesson time, but I feel the context is different in the ground-level hangar flying. At 3,000 AGL when you’re uncertain about how this thing stays up in the air in the first place you don’t want to or need to hear “stops flying” or “breaks”.

Regretably, those phrases ARE commonly used by flight instructors, even with primary students.

Fear is not the issue here. How well you fly is the issue. Granted, you do need to get over certain fears, but more important is whether or not you function well when afraid. Personally, I’ve been scared spitless at times, but I’ve kept flying the airplane in a competant manner and that is what really counts.

I think Large Marge’s story demonstrates why it can be a good thing to suppress overt expressions of fear, but it seems a little early in your training to be working on the stoic facade.

I just want to clarify an important point here. There’s a danger of going into a spin with any stall. Fortunately, with modern trainers a spin is highly unlikely. Heck, an accidental full stall is pretty unlikely - but it can happen. Which is why we practice stall avoidance and recovery.

Now, I don’t like stalls. I don’t like the sensation of a stall (particularly in the airplanes I fly that have a sharper nose drop than, say, the Piper Warrior). But I’m not afraid of stalls anymore. I’m not afraid because, first and foremost, I have confidence that I am truly in control of the airplane and I will continue to be in control of that airplane throughout the manuver

The more confidence you have in your ability to fly the plane the less fear you will have. The only way to get that confidence is to go out and practice. Stall practice can be stressful in the early stages, but stick with it and you’ll find it’s worth the effort you put into it because you’ll have increased control and confidence.

19

Not sure I agree with all of that. The term “break” is common. And while it does have a different connotation outside of aviation, so too does the term “stall” in the first place. In fact, I’d say it’s the single most misunderstood concept from aviation. Often, the first thing I have to tell people is that a stall has nothing to do with the engine.

So it’s my job as an instructor to teach the proper meaning of these terms, which I do. And while I don’t personally use the expression “the plane stops flying”, I don’t necessarily have a problem with it because it is fairly accurate.

I’m not one of those old grizzled instructors who puts students in spins on their first lesson to see if they’ll get scared. I was a victim of one such instructor, and I wouldn’t do that to anyone. However, I do believe in giving it to them straight. Pilots need to understand what is happening with the airplane, and I believe the common terminology serves this purpose. If better or more descriptive terms come up, I’ll use them. But until then I would feel that making changes to “sugar coat” the concepts would do a disservice to students.

20

I agree!!!