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That smiling emoji does nothing ’t change the fact that what you are saying is that no one who is fat in the present is qualified to play any role in this show about a better future. We are all eliminated from this vision of the future. Regardless of what you think the future will be like, eliminating an entire category of actual people from appearing on the show merely because of their appearance amounts to disincluding us from the future.
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Imagine you are proposing a utopian future in which all racial discrimination has been eliminated and this all skin color variations have been emiliorated through fully integrated inbreeding. This, you say, only actors with skin colors from range X to Y will be considered to appear in any role in this universe. Cutting out all those disqualifies skin types is going to alienate all the people in the audience today who want to be represented in the show. “Don’t worry, you’re there but you just don’t look like you!” doesn’t change that.
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Tilly isn’t necessarily obese in a manner that unquestionably defines her as physically defective. Sorry he’s just larger than average, which by itself isn’t a health defect that needs to be fixed.
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“There is no wrong way to have a body.”
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Genetic manipulation, should it be fully functional in 300-400 years, is going to change human appearance in ways we can’t imagine. There is no reason to believe that societal standards of beauty are going to stay the same as they are now. Thus we don’t actually know what people are going to want to look like. Today’s more attractive actors likely aren’t a representation of what people will do with designer genetics. So casting say Chris Pine in a role in such a future is just as likely to be as unrealistic as casting an overweight person. When we make shoes like this we aren’t casting to predict the future. We are casting to have us all in the present consider ourselves a member of a better society. So we all need to be represented there having the bodies we have and looking like we look like in the present. Telling me “you’ll be there but you won’t look like you” is no comfort. I’m left outside the party looking in.
You could easily run a marathon in a couple of hours too if you were all hopped up on space mushrooms. Plus, what is the policy on physical + mental mods in the military in the future?
I’m not sure what your objection is here. People are working on cures now. I’m guessing in about 20 years obesity will be a thing of the past, let alone in 200 years.
There are many jobs where obese people can’t do now, so should we show people unfit for the job doing those jobs as well? I used to run a 5.5 minute mile in my 20’s when in the army. After 1 heart attack, 60lbs and 35 years later I can’t do that anymore. Should there be old fat guys in action flicks to make me feel better?
So, if no white guys in their late 50’s are on the show, then I can’t enjoy it because I can’t relate to any of the characters?
It won’t need to be fixed because it won’t exist in that time period.
Hey, maybe in the future you can choose to look like Jabba the Hut. If you can meet the physical qualifications to crew a starship, then great. I would figure any role on a starship is a plumb position and the competition is fierce both mentally and physically (assuming people still look remotely like us as you have pointed out). Anyone who isn’t at the peak of the competition isn’t likely to make the cut. See many porky current astronauts, btw?
I remember sitting around a community drinking table one night looking up at the stars. I was about 45 at the time and said, “I’ve finally given up my dream of being an NHL star”. Got a few laughs at that one, but you probably had to be there. I guess I should stop watching hockey, too, huh?
When Saru gave his little “I must return some day to free my people” speech a few episodes ago, I was like “Well there’s a set up for a 3-episode arc.” Silly me, but of course he got it done in one. I mean, for fuck’s sake, even Moses had to wander for 40 years. Now, watch out! Here comes Saru! He’ll do it for you in 40 minutes! (Granted, he had help from Tilly and a Nirvana In Utero album jacket.)
The actor playing the goopy evil Ba’ul looked a lot like the actor playing the goopy evil thing that killed Tasha Yar.
“That scar represented everything that made Hugh the man he is today and now it’s gone.” That is some subtle shit right there.
I can’t believe I’m actually liking this season. Someone call in Tilly to do a level one diagnostic on me.
Star Trek is a fantasy/allegory/adventure genre. It’s not meant to be a reasliatic depictionnof a projected future. Of all the things in Star Trek that are logically or scientifically questionable what takes you out of the movie is (1) the very existence of an overweight woman in the world, and (2) an overweight woman outrunning thin people. You are making assumptions about technology and Tilly based solely upon her weight. You don’t know the state of her health or fitness or how in-universe technology has affected it. Some overweight people are capable of outrunning some thin people, and it’s entirely possible that Star Trek technology and health care allow her to be capable of that.
Certain groups of Americans have had to suffer generation of being invisible in American culture or treated as marginal, seemed to fit only certain marginal roles. Black people is one. Gay men is one. Black women in positions of authority is one. Overweight women is one. (Old white dudes are not.)
This version of Star Trek has managed to create strong, well-written. compelling characters from many of these marginal groups, and you’re here actually wishing one of them completely out if existence in the context of the show.
And it’s based entirely insisting on sticking to one small projection of what the “real future” will be like when the entire context of the story is fantasy and filled with unrealistic aspects. That’s hostile to me here in our world here and now. It’s really not a level of personal hostility I enjoy seeing in a discussion about a beloved TV show, so I’m unsubscribing from this thread. I’ll have to find my Discovery discussion fix elsewhere.
[Moderating]
So far as I can tell, all this talk about fat is irrelevant and is threatening to disrupt all discussion about this TV show (you know, what this thread is about). Everyone, drop the subject. If you wish to start a thread about representation of overweight people on TV in general (I can’t imagine this is a topic limited to Star Trek), start a new thread for that.
I wrote a long missive, but I think I’ll just leave answer with this: Snowflakes wouldn’t be allowed to serve on federation starships, either.
[Moderating]
When I said “drop it”, I meant it. Uzi, that’s a warning both for personal insults and for failure to follow moderator instructions.
- If you look what I wrote you can see I had originally written quite a bit longer post which I discarded prior to the post you see. I had started that hours before and did not refresh or preview, so I did not see your post to knock it off until much later.
- I apologize for calling Acsenray a snowflake. Let me rephrase that and say that people that are offended easily, especially when there was no intent to do so, wouldn’t be in Starfleet otherwise the Federation would be at constant war with everyone they meet, not just the few baddies depicted in the show.
What about cyborgs? More than a couple of characters appear to be partially or fully cybernetic. Seems like a refreshing departure from when robots like Data were “different”. Hence my comment about enhancement and why superhuman feats like running marathons without training may not be considered a big deal.
If running a marathon without training wasn’t a big deal, running a marathon wouldn’t be part of training. “Okay, in order to become elite officers, first you must do something mundane that anyone can do with no problem!”
Acsenray, you appear to genuinely like the show. Cool. No one should ever ascribe negative attributes to someones genuine enjoyment of a show. Especially when one can point out why you like it and whats you think is good about it.
I like the original BSG. It’s colorful. It’s sweeping. They managed to pack a ton of stuff into the only season. I like The Omega Man. It’s got a great soundtrack, and an unconventional ending. Not everything is for everybody.
That said…I still don’t know what DISC is about.
No discussion of our first encounter with Spock?
I can’t really figure out why they felt they had to drag in the whole time travel angle. Because it turned out so great on Enterprise?
But it seems like we’re actually going to segue right into Talos IV. I wonder how that’s gonna play out…
I am guessing that CBS is sensitive to the fans “not liking” the new Trek. So I sense story lines that have built-in retcons incoming.
For example, Captain Pike’s throwaway line about how he ordered hologram based communication systems being disabled on the Enterprise, because reasons. Some fans are upset that the futuristic look of the technology shown far exceeds that shown in Shatner’s TOS series.
As an aside: In this age of Internet Outrage Olympics, I think it’s getting harder and harder for TV and movie studios to please the die hard fans of Star Trek, Star Wars, and other beloved franchises. cough cough ghostbusters *cough
I don’t understand that last reference. Was there something I missed in the “upcoming episode” trailer?
Just watched. Seem to be actual Talosians in the next episode. No idea how that works out.
Yeah, that’s a very real possibility. Which I’m afraid would just be the sort of compromise nobody’s happy with in the end. The outraged will find reasons for outrage, and the rest are left with a show where nothing really matters because there’s always a finger hovering over the ‘undo’ button.
Maybe not directly in the next episode, but the long term arc seems to be laying the foundation for the original TOS pilot, or at least that’s where Michael going to Talos IV appears to lead.
Ah! I just watched the trailer/promo for season 2, episode 8. Yup. Definitely has the Talosians there.
“It’s good to be back in the chair.”
Oh, Captain Pike. There is so much I want to tell you, and yet I cannot…
I’ve been thinking about what’s bothering me with the show, and I’ve realized that it isn’t the bad science or messy plotting, it’s the fact that the show keeps reaching for these big emotional crescendos it doesn’t come close to earning. Discovery: relax. Roll up you sleeves and tell a good story, and the emotion will come on its own, organically.
Yeah, tell me about it. I tend to fast-forward through half of those–one of the worst was the one between Michael and Saru when they thought that Saru was dying. (I keep wanting her to tell him that in the mirror universe, she ate him.)