Star Trek: Khan

Yes.

[Doc Brown/Trek nerd hat on]

The timeline splits when Nero arrives the day Kirk is born, which would be around the 2230s or so (and doesn’t start to diverge seriously until he destroys Vulcan decades later). Khan left Earth in the now apocryphal ST:TOS era of the 1990s. His sleeper ship was found by the Federation, just not by Kirk & the Enterprise as in TOS.

I’m surprised at all the hate for the new films. No offense, but I’m not so much of a Trekkie to not have enjoyed Abrams’ films. I thought he handled them perfectly and expect him to be even better at saving Star Wars

“Into Darkness” was dumb, but I had fun. Good performances by Quinto and Cumberbatch (though I cracked up at “KHHAAAAANNN!!!”), fun action, and silliness. Mostly entertaining silliness, I thought.

To me, it was unforgivable mostly because Kirk didn’t stay dead.

I have a good excuse: I didn’t see the 2009 flick, and a friend wanted to see this one and I happened to be available to go with him.

It’s one thing to think the movie is okay for an action flick. But some of the Star Trek movies were just genuinely good movies, not having to fall back on being full of action in order to keep from falling apart, or using nostalgia to replace good story telling.

The Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home, The Undiscovered Country, and even possibly The Search for Spock are just genuinely good movies that offer something more than either of the new movies.

Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!

I warned you here. I posted some ridiculous over the top rant in which I probably threatened to murder every male involved in the production except for Zachary Quinto. Maybe next week time you’ll listen

So that’s what happened to Nimoy…

I disagree

Montalban is a ham only outhammed by Shatner. Not a favourite (never rewatched it, actually)

Aah, yes, the Eighties-iest of the Trek movies - it is not my idea of a good time.

Admittedly, I don’t even remember this one, although I have seen it.

It isn’t “fun”, whatever that something is.

Note that I love TOS. Seeing that same cast as ageing buffoons just doesn’t work for me in the slightest, and hasn’t even from TMP.

“Wrath of Khan” is a great movie. Not a great Star Trek movie - a great movie, period. It’s one of the ten best science fiction films of the past forty years. It’s a rare action film that marries the action with theme, working equally well as a meditation on aging and obsolescence, and as a crackling submarine war film. It has a great script, impeccable pacing, visual effects that hold up well even today, and features the some of the strongest acting of the original series episodes and movies.

Shatner’s performance, in particular, is by far his best work (and, not coincidentally, his least hammy performance, “KHANNNN” aside). Seriously - go back and watch Spock’s death scene, and this time focus on Kirk. Shatner actually, if anything, underplays it - but his eyes convey such devastation that you don’t need histrionics or weeping to understand that Kirk is completely shattered in that moment. As for Montalban, his performance, while certainly theatrical, explodes with character and charisma in a way that later villains in the series could only dream. It helps that he’s given some fantastic monologues, and his conversations with Kirk are mesmerizing because, even though the two characters are never even in the same room (and thank god we were spared an unnecessary hand-to-hand fight scene), you *feel *the clash of wills every time they interact.

The remaining Star Trek movies range from disasters to solid space opera, but none of them approach “Wrath of Khan” as legitimately good films in and of themselves.

“Into Darkness,” meanwhile, is a middling action movie with one of the worst scripts I’ve ever encountered. Whereas “Wrath of Khan” took pains to convey every major character’s motivation in detail, and then ensured that every piece of plot advancement emerged organically from those motivations, “Into Darkness” careens from mindless plot twist to plot twist without ever bothering to establish internally consistent reasons for any one of the characters to do whatever insane thing they are doing, much less give the audience any reason to care. And that’s just the first two-thirds of the film. In the third act, rather than try to create new and exciting moments to pay off what setup there was, it basically copy-pastes all of the memorable moments from “Wrath of Khan,” but with none of the understanding of what made those moments work in the first place.

As an example: Spock’s sacrifice in “Wrath of Khan” works because he spends the entirety of the film gently reminding Kirk (and, through him, the audience) that he believes “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.” The Kobayashi Maru reinforces this aspect of his philosophy, and throws his viewpoint in sharp contrast with that of Kirk’s. Spock’s death is the culmination of all of this - his putting into action what, up into then, were merely words. It proves that he meant what he said, and that it wasn’t just a series of semi-cryptic aphorisms. “Into Darkness,” on the other hand, basically gets as far as thinking, “HAY GUYZ WHAT IF KIRK WAS THE ONE WHO SACRIFICED HIMSELF?!” before ripping out the last few pages of the “Wrath of Khan” script and find/replacing all instances of Kirk’s name with Spock’s, and vice versa. It’s pandering at its worst, because the only reason these scenes exist is so that people who have seen “Wrath of Khan” will go, “oh hey, I recognize that!” It serves no thematic purpose, illuminates no aspect of the characters, and ultimately doesn’t even fucking matter to the plot because Khan’s magic blood revives Kirk instantaneously anyway.

Ugh. I liked the 2009 reboot movie all right - despite a similarly convoluted plot, it was at least fun, and made some effort at trying some new things. But “Into Darkness” was basically the worst case scenario for a reboot in my mind - one that slavishly adheres to the exterior form of the original, without any understanding of the core spirit that made the original great in the first place. It is the palest form of imitation.

Bonus points to DeForest Kelley for refusing to say he’s dead to Jim.

I like all Trek.

Some, I like more than others, tho.

The reboot Spock yelling “Khan!” was one of the things less liked. Heck, I didn’t even mind the villain being Khan, wibbly wobbly timeline stuff, but did we really need that line rehashed? Might as well have added a talking monkey tell some human to keep his dirty hands off of him.
.

Take that back. Even I wouldn’t hurt Nimoy.

I thought his ability to interfere with the sale of propane and propane related accessories was woefully unexplored.

I am in total agreement with this.

I like the first movie better when it was titled Galaxy Quest and had a better cast. (I also thought that the Omega-13 device was more imaginative than the generic “red matter” and the villain was more threatening.) The second film is really the Highlander 2:The Quickening of the Star Trek universe; it makes no sense, it totally ignores prior continuity, it randomly inserts characters with motivations that make little sense, and it has flying immortals and a female character gratuitously stripping to her underwear. No amount of lens flares can hide a complete lack of coherent plotting or character development.

J.J. Abrams is the worst director working on major Hollywood studio films today. He’s what Steven Spielberg would be if you lobotomized him with a red hot poker through the ear.

Stranger

Everything extremely well-put (though I’d argue FIRST CONTACT is a good movie on the merits, too–as a distant second to WoK).

The thing that made INTO DARKNESS so detestable was how lazy it was. I enjoyed the reboot and liked how they used our familiar Spock as a pivot point in continuity to reintroduce ourselves to the dynamics of the show. Not great, but fun.

But then, instead of embarking on some new ideas, since they have an open canvas without any need to adhere to Trek canon or convention, what do they do? Go back to the mill with characters and conflicts that are all pale echoes of the original, and with a pathetic attempt to mine emotion in Kirk’s “death” not because of anything we’ve invested in this Kirk and this crew, but because it shamelessly references an emotional touchpoint for Trek fans. It’s one of a dozen shortcuts the movie makes to try to mainline genuine feeling not by earning it, but by evoking nostalgia instead. Lazy.

Easily in my bottom 3 of Trek films.

And remember, this is the guy making the new Star Wars films!

I got a bad feeling about this…

That’s how I react whenever I see someone spelling it “Kahn”. <<shudder>>

The problem with FC–and all four NextGen movies–is the inclusion of a B story with an entirely different tone. All the shipboard sequences are excellent. The bits with Zephrem Cochrane are painful because of the shift in tone. An occasional light moment is one thing, but there was simply too much of it in FC.

Which is why it’s perfect to watch on DVD.

Ah, I wish a line or two about something like that had made it into the movie, if only to explain why Khan no longer looks like he has a fondness for rich corinthian leather. :smiley:

+1

That’s utterly ridiculous. Probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on this board since someone claimed Phantom Menace was the worst (big budget) movie of all time. It’s a good movie. It has flaws, yes, but it raped nothing, and was very fun to watch.