Sorry. I meant to explicitly point out one instance where the CGI is impressive. Remember when Obi-Wan and Anakin are pursuing Dooku at the end, and they tell the pilot to fire on Dooku’s speeder, and the pilot turns around and says, “Sir, we’re out of rockets.”? That certainly didn’t seem to be from a great distance to me.
How was this made clear? As I recall, Jedi aren’t really talked about all that much in the originals, aside from Luke learning what being a Jedi is all about and what it entails. It’s true that Leia would have been the very last resort, desperate to be sure, but it was my impression that the reasoning for that was because, of the two, Luke had the potential to go up against Darth Vader and resist the lure of the dark side. Leia didn’t. Jedi are not all equal in their Force potential/mastery.
While I think the Force didn’t as much give them their respective skills as it did enhance them greatly, I agree with this point. This is why Leia wasn’t really considered for Luke’s journey- her talents were elsewhere. It wasn’t because she was female. It could almost be said that, logically, Leia was a better choice for the job- she hated Vader. She would have had no problem killing Vader, given the chance. Luke, however, being more compassionate by nature, felt pity for his father and went to him with every intent of not fighting, which nearly got him killed. Luckily that little spark of good that was left in Vader took over in those last moments.
I stand corrected on the clone troopers… I had thought that the close-ups were guys in suits. If they were generated, then that is pretty impressive. Unfortunately, though, that’s not something that the audience can properly appreciate: They don’t look impressive if you think they’re actors, and if you can tell they’re not actors, then that’s a sign that they weren’t impressive enough. Again, special effects mostly stand out when they’re bad.
I’m going to stand on the no-female-Jedis thing, though. Back when I saw the movies originally, everyone I talked to had that interpretation (nobody in my circle had read any of the Expanded Universe, so any female Jedis in the EU didn’t come into the discussion). In the movies (highest level of canon, and the only one known to most fans) there wasn’t any indication of female Jedis until Ep II. Admittedly, our sample is limited to Obi-Wan, Annakin, Yoda, and Luke in the originals, plus Qui-Gonn and Mace in Ep I, but four or six men to zero women looks pretty significant.
Wasn’t there a female Jedi on the council in Ep 1? IIRC, it’s been awhile since I’ve watched it. But, even if you wanted to judge by the original trilogy alone, it was never said or implied that there weren’t female Jedi. There were just none that were part of the story. And it is implied that Leia can become a Jedi, or start training, at any rate. From ROTJ: “You’re wrong, Leia. You have that power[the force] too. In time, you’ll learn to use it as I have…”
There was a female of yodas race in the council in ep 1, and there was always talk of Leia becoming a jedi if Luke failed. I never got any “no females allowed” vibe from the jedi in any of the movies. I wish they had shown a little more of Ayla Secura in attack of the clones.
There are female Jedi. Leia goes on to become one in the books.
I’m pretty sure that Yoda was the only known one of his race.
My biggest problem with the prequels is that, IMHO, Lucas so far has wasted the equivalent of an entire movie setting up the backstory. Now, you would think he’s got to rush in a damn truckload of stuff just to make Ep. III comprehensible.
Here’s my thoughts/what I would have done. Flame if need be.
- There was no need for boy Annakin to take up an entire movie. Who really cares who his mother was? Who really cares about the purported virgin birth? All that stuff was contrived.
Instead, what Lucas should have done was a little Moses discovery action—just some abandoned little kid washes up in the marsh in Degobah (his father was a crack junkie; what a waste of Force talent), his adoptive parents are freaked out by his ability to shoot lightning through his diaper, and they drop him by the summer home of ye ole mystic, Yoda.
Yoda takes baby Anny back to Coruscant where the matronly Jedi librarian or whomever raises him. Cut to 5 y-o Anny training with the other little punks. By age 10, he’s a renowned soap box pod racer. Boom. 15 minutes in and we’re through Annakin Skywalker’s childhood.
- Cut to the “10 Years Later” graphic. Annakin’s 18 or 20, he’s Obi Wan’s padewan, and his best friend (played by, say, Colin Farrell, since he’s in everything these days and the ladies find him sexy) is Qui Gon Jinn’s (sp) padewan. Annakin’s got daddy issues and sort of resents Obi Wan’s overbearing nature, but whatever. Anyway, both pairs are hot and heavy in saving a certain planet from separatists or whoever the hell those guys in TPM were, who have either human-looking Sith warriors at their side (forget the crap about balance in the Force) or bad-ass battle droids.
The planet’s princess happens to be a hottie named Amidala. Annakin’s attracted to her, she’s attracted to him, they’re attracted to each other. Love at first sight. But first things first. Annakin and Best Friend get separated from Obi Wan and Qui Gon and they Buddy Movie through with their light sabers and blasters.
They get to a rendezvous point and find the unfortunate sight of Qui Gon being killed by Darth Maul I. Yes, there’s a Darth Maul II, and Obi Wan’s now gotta take 'em both on, except by Lucasian luck, Annakin and Best Friend join the fight. Obi Wan takes one out, the other two take the other out, some fighter pilot in the distance takes out the obligatory Power Generator, and …
In a scene sort of like in ANH, three figures walk up to a medal stand. Amidala gives Annakin an extra look (maybe he was particularly brave in the battle…) and the romance is set up for Episode II (with no lines like “Your skin is soft, not like this coarse sand.”).
EPISODE II
- Of course, there’s another side to Annakin, and what set him off? No, not guilt about his mother, but jealousy. Fear he’s going to lose Amidala’s affection. Why? Because deep down he’s got an inferiority complex, he always feels like he needs to prove himself, and he’s afraid Amidala’s going to jump to Best Friend, who is after all better looking.
Same general plot points as the real Episode II, except both Annakin and Best Friend are assigned security detail. Annakin thinks Best Friend is moving in on Amidala, and Annakin provokes a fight. Amidala’s sleeping or something; she doesn’t know what’s going on.
Best Friend doesn’t want to fight, but he’s gotta defend himself. What follows is the most amazing lightsaber duel you’ll ever see. Both of them have talent, and there’s no Yoda jumping all over the place (maybe later…). Hate and fear and jealousy swell in Annakin, and he’s overcome by a new sort of power. Best Friend’s hand is chopped off (why not; everybody else’s is) and he’s beaten. He doesn’t want to fight anymore, so he drops his lightsaber. Annakin turns his back, begins to calm down, and then … the Emperor’s March plays for the first time … his face turns sinister and he “strikes down[his friend with all his hate.” He stands over the dead body (which is off camera), and blood trickles toward his feet. His green light saber is still engaged, and through a neat camera trick the green suddenly turns the color of the blood on the ground, red. For an instance, you see the signature red light saber.
He covers up the murder somehow (maybe he explains to Amidala that Best Friend died defending her from a powerful bounty hunter/assassin; that’s their job, right?), and my plot merges with the real Ep II plot when Annakin and Amidala go to save Obi Wan (minus machine floor hijinks).
When Ep. II ends, we know:
----Annakin is now much more powerful than he was before;
----Annakin has Amidala all to himself, and that’s what motivates him;
----Palpatine, sitting in his barcalounger, knows all this; and
----The truth about Best Friend’s death will eventually present itself, and his is what will cast him from the Jedi Order and cost him Amidala’s love.
----Obviously, Round 1 vs. Obi Wan must result; lava pit, Darth Vader costume, all the rest.
Yes, there is. You can see her on the DVD at 1:25:16. She and another member of the council look at one another right after Qui-Gon says, “It’s possible he was conceived by the midichlorians.”
If you really want heresy, I think that Lucas should have gone straight on to Eps VII, VIII, and IX and made it entirely new.
-Why doesn’t Vader recognize his own daughter when he meets her face to face in Ep4, seeing as she is as powerful in the force as Luke? In other places can sense powerful weilders of the from hundreds of miles away, and its clear that all force empowered people can simply “tell” that others may be potential adepts, especially when they are powerful ones. There’s even a freakin blood test apparently!
In Ep4, he spends days torturing her, getting nothing out of her, and never senses a thing.
-Why doesn’t Vader ever recognize three-pee-o later on, even though I’m pretty sure he meets them at least once (in Ep5)? Maybe this is one of the things that clues him into Luke being his son?
-Why don’t Uncie Owen and Aunt whatever, for that matter, recognize three-pee-o in Ep4? Vader I might be able to buy had much of his past memories wiped away. But there’s no reason why the dusty Degobah dudes should forget. They seem to know that Anakin became Vader (that’s why they don’t want to talk about what became of Luke’s father) so wouldn’t the sudden appearance of his own personal droid freak them out even a little? I know there are plenty of protocol droids running around, but none all of them speak like a hyperventilating Village Queen, and don’t these things have serial numbers?
Here you go 
The CGI in AotC was pretty amazing. If you watch the DVD with the commentaries, you’ll be surprised how much stuff was total computer graphics. (For example, a good bit of the Obi-Wan/Jango Fett fight scene was total computer animation because it was too dangerous for stuntmen.) It rather obviously took precedence over the acting sigh.
I’m really disturbed by the timeline also. It seemed like in IV-VI, the Empire had been around for a while. If nothing else, hunting down all the Jedi would take a good long while. (Of course, if Lucas has any sense, he’ll have someone take out the Jedi Tower during the big Jedi Jamboree so that most of them will die in one fell swoop.) And what happened to all the people who were loyal to the Old Republic? Doesn’t seem like they’d be reduced to the Rebel Alliance in only 18-19 years.
theendisnear: thanks - never knew that
Vader didn’t recognize Leia because he didn’t know she existed. Obi Wan hid the fact that there were twins from DV, so he only knew about Luke. And in ep 4-6, it wasn’t odd for the force to be present in people. Vader even said the Force was strong in Luke even though he didn’t know it was him.
In my opinion, episode 1 should of had Anakin at 15-16 years old. The whole love story would seem less eerie.
Why is Amidala treated as such an important person in the Senate? I never heard Naboo cited for its economic, resource, or strategic value. Seems like a quaint vacation spot which would have a representative promoting tourism rather than brokering power.
Apos, thank you for reminding me of the whole C3PO and DV/A connection. Annikan built him for crying out loud. And then later on with the Aunt and the Uncle. There should have been some recognition.
And Exapno, I have to agree. According to the books and comics that take place after EP VI, it gets very interesting:
- Leia give birth to twins, ala Han Solo.
1.5 Han, with little else to do, goes back to smuggling, in order to hide the twins. - There is a power vacuum in the Dark Side with Vader and the Emperor gone.
- Luke goes on to do some extraordinary stuff.
- And Boba Fett is resurrected.
I don’t think Leia was as powerful in the Force as Luke was, but regardless, Vader may very well have sensed that she had Force abilities. However, that in itself wouldn’t point to them being related. As Homeslice said, in Eps 4-6 it wasn’t unusual for the Force to be present in people. The Jedi were all but extinct at that point in time, so it wouldn’t be a stretch to run into someone with untrained Force potential, who may even not be aware they have it.
In my widely known opinion, they should have tossed Jake Lloyd into a Sarlacc Pit WAY before he started in as Vader. All writing aside, I HATED the portrayal of the ‘gosh and golly’ Anakin.
He should have been mysterious, a bit more in depth. Instead we get bowl cut “Whoopies!” and acting bordering on retardism.
Lloyd, or as I like to call him, the ‘sawed off yuppie larve’ that polluted the craptacular Ep.1 will never ever get near a movie to save his life thank god. I still get mad knowing Lucas chose the little turd when Haley Joel Osmet was the other choice.
Obi-Wan obscured her from Vader by using the Force. Vader only figured it out in ROTJ after Luke’s “thoughts betrayed him.” “Sister! Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me.”
Protocol droids weren’t unique. Remember the silver one that 3PO ran into on Bespin. My guess is that there was some sort of “protocol droid model kit” that people could use. Vader could simply have thought he was another protocol droid, not his specifically. Besides, there’s nothing to indicate that he would have cared had he recognized him.
I’m pretty sure he knew all along that Luke was his son, but didn’t particularly care so much until Palpatine suggested that he turn him.
This was the first summer that his “nephew” Owen was helping out on the farm, so presumably he and his girlfriend Veru* were getting to know the ropes and had a bunch of droids everywhere. Who knows how old Owen was supposed to be when he found 3PO again, but for all the droids he used over the years in the meantime he could have easily forgotten. Hell, I don’t recognize other humans that I went to high school with 15 years ago.
[sub]*That was the worst line in the movie. Why couldn’t he have just had them be married? I heard “This is my girlfriend Veru” and was totally yanked back into reality. I was waiting for “Well, we’re sort-of engaged to be engaged - we’re not seeing other people right now, and for all intents and purposes we’re married already, we just haven’t made the engagement official, you see, although I did give her this promise ring…”[/sub]
How about this scene?
{SCENE: Genosian desert, Padme and a clone trooper just fell out of a transport}
Padme: “Assemble what forces you can!..we have to go after Dokoo!”
Clone Trooper: “Roger…Ok…looks like just you and me out here princess”
“Hey guys? Is there some reason we have to keep dragging this astromech droid and his gay friend everywhere? I think I have a toaster-droid and a toilet-bot that might also want to join our adventures.”
"Why doesn’t Vader ever recognize three-pee-o later on, even though I’m pretty sure he meets them at least once (in Ep5)? "
Cause someone painted him “Goldenrod” and he remembers him as “Craptastic Silver”.