Staw Wars Episode 3 - The best way to handle the Vader problem

Cafe Society
1

Just in case you are one of the three people in the free world who hasn’t seen The Empire Strikes Back, this thread contains spoilers regarding the secret identity of a major character.

The problem of how to handle Anakin Skywalker’s corruption by The Dark Side and subsequent metamorphosis into Darth Vader is a sticky wicket that has been previously discussed. The shocking revelation in episode 5 suddenly becomes not-so-shocking, once episode 3 shows us how it all came about.

I propose a solution.

Episode three should not even address the issue. Anakin is maimed/disfigured/presumed dead in episode 3, and later we are introduced to The Emporer’s newest Lord of the Sith, Darth Vader. Perhaps The Emp can ever make an early reference to his new buddy before Anakin’s defeat & metamorphosis, tricking the audience into thinking that Vader already exists.

This way, virgins can still be surprised by the revelation in episode 5, and nothing is ruined by watching the movies in numerical order.

Whaddaya’s think?

2

I think that is entirely too graceful a solution to even occur to George Lucas.

3

The climax of EP III, and thus the entire saga, MUST be the fight between Obi Wan and Aanakin at the lip of the volcano/lava pit. It should go something like this:

Darth Sideous has taken the place of Palpatine, his Force-dominated clone, and has declared himself Emperor after the long-running Clone Wars have taken a terrible toll on the Republic. Yoda, Mace Windu, and Obi Wan now realize who the “Phantom Menace” was and formulate a plan to stop him. They naturally enlist the aid of Aanakin, whom some still believe is the Chosen One. Aanakin, however, has been slowly corrupted by Palpatine/Sideous and betrays their plans to the Emperor. The remaining Jedi are declared to be in open rebellion against the Republic/Empire.

Meanwhile, news comes from Naboo that Amadala has given birth. The news is naturally delivered to the Jedi Temple, so the rebellious jedi find out first. Obi Wan and Yoda race to Naboo to protect Amadala and the twins, who they know are genetically predisposed to be powerful jedi and thus subject to either execution or Sith indoctrination by the New Boss. “Our only hope, they are” says Yoda.

Aanakin returns to the temple to clean house. Mace Windu, left behind to fight a rearguard action, is killed after a spectacular duel with Aanakin, but not before Aanakin reads his thoughts and learns of the birth (but not of the twins! He must think he only has a son until ROTJ). Aanakin races to Naboo to retrieve his progeny.

On Naboo, Obi Wan and Yoda convince a tearful Amadala that Aanakin has gone over to the dark side. In a heart-wrenching scene, she agrees to give up her newborn twins for the good of the galaxy. Leia is spirited to Alderaan by Yoda, who then takes up residence on nearby Degobah to create a Force-shield to hide her existence from Sith divination. Obi Wan takes the infant Luke with the intention of going to Tatooine. Soon after their departure, Aanakin arrives. He confronts Amadala, who begs him to stop his rampage and join the Rebellion. Aanakin is enraged because she will not tell him where his child(ren) are, and kills Amadala with a force-choke. His journey to the Dark Side is now complete.

Now Aanakin knows who is behind this. He senses Obi Wan’s presence on the planet and gives chase. Obi Wan’s manages to get his ship into space (in a scene which echoes the Millenium Falcon’s escape from Tattooine in A New Hope), but it is damaged in the process. He manages one hyperspace jump before the drive gives out entirely and ends up on volcanic Geonosis (which AOTC established is close to both Naboo and Tattooine). Aanakin gives chase in his fully functional ship.

The climax is a chase across Geonosis as Obi Wan desperately searches for a way off planet and Aanakin relentlessly hunts him down. The final confrontation is the mother of all lightsaber duels as Obi Wan tries to defend the infant Luke and coax Aanakin back to the light. In the end, Obi Wan casts Aanakin into an open lava pit where he is presumed dead. The movie ends with Obi Wan handing over the young Luke to Owen and Beru on Tattoine.

Now why wont Lucas return my calls?

4

This is an interesting issue. A big part of my fatherly duties (should I ever have any children) will be to educate the kid about the great movies of the past. But how should we show the Star Wars series to them? It’s either got to be from 4-6 and then 1-3 or simply 1-6. Jumping around out of order is reckless and I don’t want to hear anything about such options from the peanut gallery, ya here? That said, I gotta go with the order in which they were released.

If you play them in numerical order for a kid, then all of a sudden halfway through the series there is a tremendous drop in the quality of the effects. The last thing I want is for the kid to not like A New Hope because he thinks it looks cheesey when compared to The Phantom Menace. That’s not the message the kid should get. As I show the films to the children, I will explain the order in which they were released and how they made more money then god. I’ll tell them the history of the movie, and about the long lines, and about how the surprise twist was one of the greatest moments ever in a movie as they watch the films. They will learn about culture, capitalism, and the evolution of cinematography as they expereince these films. I think you fuck it up if you make a virgin watch them in 1-6 order.

I also definately want to see Vader in 3. Hopefully for at least a half an hour. I heard they already got JEJ to do the voice, so I’m guessing the Sith Lord will be in it in full gear. Vader has to kill Count Dookoo and take his place at the Emperors side (the offer which Luke later refuses - this is a connection that will be made I’m guessing). They also have to show him destroy the Jedi and force Obi-Wan and Yoda into hiding. This could, I suppose, all be done sans outfit, but it would be ten times cooler to see if it was Vader instead of that kid. In addition, we must see the death of Padme.

DaLovin’ Dj

5

Did you see the re-release a couple years ago? Ep. 4 was cleaned up and enhanced. You can’t see the smudges under Luke’s speeder or the electrical tape outlines around ships any more as they cruise through the darkness of deep space. I would not be surprised to see 4 through 6 enhanced & re-released again in ten years, with CGI covering up most of the cheesy things about 1980’s special effects.

The only real differencer will be how bad the Yoda puppet in ROTJ looks compared to the CGI Yoda in AOTC.

6

He should! Those are some fantastic ideas.

(I am not a huge SW fan, so I don’t know if you made all that up yourself or is some of it comes from the books or something…)

7

(many spoilers below)

In my opinion this scene has already been compromised by Episode 2. While certainly a step up from Episode 1, there are some bad issues about it, the main one being Anakin’s descent to the dark side.

It’s clear from the script alone that Anakin’s slaughter of the sandpeople is supposed to be a turning point. While this is certainly not the moment he becomes Darth Vader, it is (or, imo, should be) the moment that the possibility truly arises. However, due to a poor script, direction, and acting, the Anakin that emerges after this is no different from the Anakin before it.

In my own world, Episode 1 wouldn’t have existed, not just because it wasn’t a very good movie, but because it added very little to the story. None of that was even remotely necessary. Here’s how I would have done it.

If this series is truly the story of the Rise, Fall, and Redemption of Darth Vader, then throw out that stupid Qui-Gon business. Episode One begins with Anakin Skywalker, a young boy on a planet that isn’t Tattooine. Throw in the pod racing or whatever, but he’s discovered by a Jedi as having the knack. No need for stupid midichloriens to “prove” it, there are subtler and more interesting ways to do that.

(For example - Jedi is watching Anakin work on the pod racer. Anakin reaches for a tool just out of his reach. It jumps into his hand and Anakin begins using it. Doesn’t even notice what happened as unusual. Jedi is amazed - this kid is untrained in the force and yet uses it effortlessly and naturally.)

Episode One details this kid coming to coruscant and becoming a Jedi. Let us find out what a Jedi is all about by seeing it through his eyes. We would see him being trained, getting his lightsaber, etc. Along the way he meets Padme (have her be in senator candidate school or whatever.)

Use Episode One to introduce Anakin Skywalker, who we hardly know. And to introduce the Jedi, and the world pre-Empire. I don’t want to see Tattooine, I’ve seen that. I don’t want to see Naboo, no one cares about Naboo. There’s still plenty of room for adventure, and you can have a side plot with lots of thrills and chills. Oh, and get rid of Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan is the main dude here, and he was trained by Yoda, like he said.

Okay, that’s Episode One. Setting the stage. Episode Two is somewhat like the one we had, only we see a different Anakin at the beginning. He’s been busy but he’s a good guy. He’s cocky, sure, but he’s a hero, through and through. He’s got a good heart. He believes that good will triumph. And Padme, who he hasn’t seen for a while for various reasons, finds out he’s grown up into a great guy, and is hotty mc hot for him, only they feel they should keep their distance. That’s fine. But give her a REASON to love him other than

INT. PADME’S ROOM – NIGHT

Padme: I love you.

Then, when the mom thing happens, or whatever the event is, the change in Anakin is dramatic. Sure, we can always see a little of a dark side to him, but Anakin as presented in the existing Ep. 2 is a jerk from frame 1. We should see his ideals being cut away. And we should see Padme not know what to do as this guy she cares for and loves begins a slight descent. (Mrs. Mancer pipes in - add Obi-Wan into the romance for love triangle fun.) By the end of Episode Two, Anakin has secretly married Padme and has agreed to become a “special helper” for Palpatine. He’s not evil yet, but the door is open.

Episode three, all hell breaks loose. Palpatine is poisoning his mind, playing on his fears, telling him how the Jedi no longer function as well. Palpatine has a betetr plan, a way for everythign to be right again, but there are certain people who would stand in the way and must be eliminated for the good of all. And of course, Padme is one of them. And we all know where it goes from there. Betrayal, fear, hot hot lovin, Obi-Wan taking the now-impregnated Padme to safety, and eventually meeting Anakin, now Darth Vader, over the infamous volcanic pit. The twins are born as Vader plummets to his seeming doom, but Yoda suggests that for safety they should be kept separate.

Fin.

Man, I’m all excited just thinking about it. If only it were the real thing.

8

You can have all the James Earl Jones you want in Episode 3.

After all, where is it written that Anakin Skywalker was the ONLY Jedi ever to be known as Darth Vader?

9

Isn’t it pretty clear that Vader must appear in #3 if JEJ is going to do the voice? I mean, Anakin only sounds like JEJ when he’s wearing the head gear/respirator.

10

Here’s what I think should happen. In the 3rd movie, George Lucas should have both Annakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi killed.

Hey, give me credit…it would be completely unexpected!! :smiley:

11

You know, after seeing Ep 1 and 2, I’m not so sure it was a bad thing that the Jedi council got broken up. I mean, come on–they’re dumb as posts!

12

I’m so out of the loop anymore.

What’s to say that , whatzit, Geonosis? isn’t the lavaplanet remains of Naboo, after some big shootout in the closing act of the Clone Wars? Lucas does have a predilection for renaming people like a madman, so why not a planet?

Possibly this gives some mildly logical reason for Anakin and Obi-Wan to end up there, lay down some Jedi-Fu on each other, and end up with the kid taking a highdive into a redhot jacuzzi. And since the planet’s been raked over the coals, so to speak, he can’t hie his ass to a significant amount of Bacta in time, and he ends up needing the breathing gear/JEJ voicebox.

Does the fact that Anakin falls into a lava pit (where did that come from, anyway? I remember hearing something to that effect as far back as the early 80s) mean there has to be an entire planet fulla volcanoes and lava pits? I mean, c’mon, George, we got more than one landscape on our planet, don’t we?

I think Attrayant and Legomancer hit on some neat ideas. Liked this one specifically:

But after midichlorians and Jar-Jar Binks, I just don’t see anything coming outta Lucasfilms that I’ll still think of as “Hey, cool!” in 20+ years. Oh well. Lucky to have struck gold once, I suppose.

[sub]I can’t believe I’m still interested at all, childhood investment or not, after Episode 1. The Phantom Movie. Yeesh.[/sub]

13

That’s the only part I disagree with, really. Personally, I think it’s pretty clear that Artoo and Threepio - well, maybe not Threepio - are charged with keeping an eye on Leia. Ten bucks says we see Threepio get mind-wiped, and Artoo just promises to keep everything a secret (hey, he’s one of the few droids with brains).

14

After the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan, fade out. There is a voiceover by the Emperor about the changes that will come, joining him, etc. (essentially the talk he gave Luke). While this is happening, the scene should fade in to a hospital type room where Anakin is being repaired. His back is to us. As the camera circles him sitting on the table, the mask is slowly lowered from above (like in Jedi). We don’t quite see his face before it is in place. At this point, the Emperor has finished his speech, and has posed the question to Anakin, to join him. Anakin says: “Yes, my master,” and the respirator clicks on for the first time as the screen wipes to the credits.

That’s how I want it to end.

15

I got a cold chill when I read this part.

I kid you not.

16

And this has what, exactly to do with Star Wars? :stuck_out_tongue:

This would be completely offset by the huge jump in the quality of the writing.

17

You’ve additionally got this problem: in terms of literary flow, we need to have a resolution of Anakin and Padme’s relationship. We know Padme dies when Leia was very young, but that’s it. Yes, we COULD have her die from a broken neck from slipping on a banana peel, but the story would be far too anticlimactic.

What I think needs to happen is for Anakin himself to kill Padme. It’s fairly obvious that Palpatine is enjoying feeding Anakin’s ego, particularly in telling him that he’ll be the greatest Jedi of all someday. It’s clear in Clones that at least part of Anakin resents Obi-Wan and the Jedi order for making him obey such rigid rules.

(In fact, Anakin seems to have picked up some of Qui-Gon’s defiant, push-the-envelope nature. I was watching Phantom Menace last night and realized this began with Anakin running off to destroy the Droid control ship. “Qui-Gon told me to stay in this cockpit, and that’s what I’m going to do.” Snicker.)

Hence, Palpatine needs to turn Anakin against Padme in order to get him to turn completely. My prediction (in addition to everything else that happens): Padme runs off in a shuttle (either to Obi-Wan and Yoda’s protests, or behind their backs) to turn her husband back from the dark side. She confronts Vader alone with the Emperor, same as Luke did/will do in Episode VI. Palpatine, using his goading language as always, convinces Vader to turn the force on Padme, finishing her off in a force-choke.

…which he can’t stop. It might be more tragic if Vader tries to stop it at the last second, but isn’t able to overcome the Dark Side. Or worse, Palpatine is secretly the one choking Padme, but allows Vader to believe he’s doing it. He’s pretty sneaky like that.

18

I just wanna say that this thread just reminds me of what’s so wrong about presenting a long story out of sequence: We already know, essentially, what’s gonna happen. This makes the plot irrelevant, and all that’s left (especially in the case of SW), is the music, the action scenes and the effects.

I’ll watch Episode 3, but I’ll probably feel like I’ve already seen it before I even enter the theatre.

19

Some of y’all have Way too much time on your hands and take all of the SW crap Way, WAy, WAY too seriously.

/Shatner/ (paraphrased)

For God’s sake, it’s just a MOVIE. You’ve taken something that I did as a lark for a few years and turned it into a colossal waste of time!!!.

/Shatner/

20

So we should just read the novels instead?