The farther I get away from EPs 7-9 the more I dislike them. 7 was and is a whole lot of rewatchable fun but it doesn’t lead anywhere interesting. I must have just missed the window for the prequels because I’m starting to see more talk about how their great movies mainly from people who had them come out when they were children. I tried watching them a couple of weeks ago and they are such boring garbage.
If it wasn’t for how amazing the Mandalorian is, and it has its own story problems, I would bail on new Star Wars content. On the other hand if they get rid of Kennedy, put Favreau in charge, and remake eps 1-3 and 7-9 I will be there on opening night. I’m really excited for the Book of Boba Fett and the new Obi Wan tv show.
Agreed. It was also the scene that made my son say “Now I agree with the fanboys and want the sequel trilogy to be non-canon, because otherwise that means Kylo Ren will eventually…”
“Don’t worry about it. They’ll figure out something, just like they didn’t kill off Ahsoka and Ezra and were still able to explain away why they weren’t mentioned in the original trilogy despite the fact that both Yoda and Obi-wan met both of them.”
I’ll nominate the throne room fight in Last Jedi as the most badass scene in the sequel trilogy.
Although it is very flashy, it’s a terribly-done scene that basically feels like talented amateurs did the fight choreography. Even seeing it the first time - and I am far from an expert here - I could immediately pick out the numerous times that the weird bodyguards hung back so as not to actually do anything, how they lazily “lined up” their attacks so the supposed-heroes could block them easily, and how their swings were just…weird. They were obviously swinging to miss, and that really took me out a film that I wasn’t enjoying in the first place. For example, in one shot a character’s weapon just vanishes because otherwise Rey would be, y’know, dead. The scene was shot so badly that they literally edited a weapon out of existence rather than do it right. In terms of technical skill and cinematography, it’s completely overshadowed by the PT ; in terms of emotional depth and meaning, it’s crushed by the OT.
It’s basically a good microcosm of the ST as a whole: lots of wild colour and sound, but very little substance.
Now, on the larger point: Will Disney obsolete the Sequel Trilogy?
I have no idea. However, the ST left Disney with a bit of an issue. Because they got into this with no plan, they left themselves with no real future. The First Order just isn’t very interesting and there’s no real “meat” in that story, and there aren’t really any questions to be answered. Certainly the customers rather obviously aren’t asking for more relating to that. Disney might be able to do something with it, but they had a bunch of people who just don’t “do” world-building, and it kinda shows. Right now it appears the new team is working on that question, and they may just prefer to ignore the whole issue and go in another direction.
I endorse this line of thinking. I’d have really liked to see them examine Rose’s PTSD, for instance. Not, like, on the couch in therapy sessions, but in a recognition that she has it, as shown through her responses to stimuli, and thus explaining away the sheer idiocy of some of her decisions in Episode VIII, but without sidelining and effectively erasing the character or the woman who portrayed her from the final installment of the trilogy.
Rose was a salvageable character. If only Abrams had had the courage, the will, and the talent (as a writer) to do it.
I agree. Let them lie, and just don’t really refer to them much, and confine the stories to periods outside of their effects.
No reason to retcon them; the issue is more in the terrible continuity/lack of story arc, not in the actual end result. I mean, in the end, there was a sort of story arc for purposes of future stories and continuity, but (and here’s the salient part) as a audience member, it made for a less than satisfying movie experience.
Disney should learn their lesson and appoint a “Star Wars Czar” whose entire job is to define a lore/story path forward (and backward), and keep the ship on that heading. They should grant him the authority to do this conclusively- he should be able to check directors, writers, etc… and have final editorial say over their output.
That’s what was missing in the third trilogy; Disney had a vague idea, then they let Abrams and Johnson pursue their visions about how it should be; there should have been a very clear and coherent overall story, and then the directors slot into that with their interpretations, instead of being allowed to change the entire Star Wars universe as they went.
One more thing… something upthread got me thinking, when someone said that younger people like the prequels, and that they suspect a different younger generation likes the sequel trilogy, as they’re THEIR trilogies, and that we’re old farts preferring OUR trilogy. I don’t think it’s that at all; I think it’s more that the filmmaking got worse in different ways on the subsequently made trilogies. The first one had 2 of 3 directed by other, accomplished directors, and Lucas got lucky on the first movie. But the story was coherent. The prequels had equally coherent stories, but sub-par direction and dialogue from Lucas himself. The third trilogy had fine direction and dialogue, but atrocious continuity and story coherence, and that’s what doomed them.
Not liking the prequels or third trilogy doesn’t have to do with your generation, it probably has to do more with your maturity as a movie watcher.
Agreed. If it was simply a matter of the age of the viewers, The Mandalorian would have been doomed to be a failure and have been just as heavily criticized as the prequel and sequel trilogies. Instead, it’s hugely popular, even with middle aged guys like me that grew up with the original trilogy. That’s because 1) it’s of better quality than the prequel trilogy and 2) it has the feel of Star Wars, which Episodes 8 and 9 don’t.
The Abram’s trilogy gave me a greater appreciation for the prequel trilogy. At least Lucas’ vision was cohesive and coherent. I did enjoy The Force Awakens and I actually liked several of the characters include Rey, Fin, Poe, and even Kylo Ren. I thought a villain struggling against what good he had inside him to do what he thought necessary to bring order to the universe was a nice contrast to seeing a good character struggle against the darkness within. I was able to overlook the implication that Luke, Leia, and Han were broken down losers.
By the time the 2nd movie rolled around I had grown dissatisfied with the fates of Luke, Leia, and Han and the New Republic. I fully expected the OG trilogy to be the elder statesman providing occasional guidance to the new generation of heroes on the big screen. Instead, well, I got something I just didn’t care for. But the 2nd movie also introduced plot elements that made me hate some of the new characters. I really liked Poe but by the end of the mutiny subplot I couldn’t stomach him. Which is too bad because I thought the actors were just fine in their roles.
IMHO, the problem was with the whole Canto Bight subplot. It didn’t really advance the story. It took Finn away from the main plot. Then she gets disappeared in Episode IX, making the disconnect between VIII and IX glaringly obvious by rendering the whole Canto Bight plot line even less relevant. It would be like if the Jabba and Han plot had been abandoned in RotJ and Han was just never heard from again.
I agree. Ren was by far the most interesting character in the whole thing, but he was dreadfully underexplored in favor of essentially one-note good-guy characters in Rey and Finn. The whole trilogy would have been MUCH more interesting had they centered it around Ren/Solo’s fall and redemption, rather than around a rehash of the first trilogy with different characters. I mean, Luke grew and changed through the course of the original trilogy- from farm boy to a full Jedi in the third movie. And so does Rey, but almost exactly like Luke did- both found droids with secret messages, both go study with reclusive Jedi masters on remote planets, and both eventually end up defeating Palpatine and redeeming his right-hand men in the final scene.
Personally I think the canon/not canon distinction is way over-emphasized. Put another way, artwork involves compromises, and I don’t think absolute consistency with a problematic segment created a decade or more ago (for example - I expect this franchise to last for a while) is especially important. Credible characters with credible motivations matter a lot more to me.
Admittedly, if the inconsistency is so jarring that it snaps you out of the story, that’s an issue. But I honestly don’t see a problem with creating a work in Star Wars Universe #7, where the original trilogy happened but one or more of the other 9 episodes didn’t. Deep background for the biggest fans, outlined outside of the movie. They do that sort of thing in anime, as canon issues aren’t weighed as heavily in Japan.
I can imagine a multi-episode work conceived in advance with a plot that fits together like a jigsaw puzzle (eg Steins Gate). In that case canon might matter. But… that’s not Star Wars.
Rey and Kylo should have been siblings. And not surprise twist siblings - establish it in the opening crawl that Han and Leia had two kids. Make Rey a full fledged Jedi from the start of the movie, just graduated from Luke’s Jedi Academy, and pissed as hell at her brother for betraying the family and turning evil.
When Disney rebooted the canon, they kept a lot of the old canon stuff in print, under the “Legacy” imprint. I’m wondering how long before they start releasing new content under that label.
Those are true, but I think you left out the most important reason, which is just that it’s a coherent story told in a sensible manner. It has a clear protagonist who embarks upon a hero’s quest. There are clear supporting characters, an antagonist with a clear motivation, and the story proceeds in a fashion that is both comprehensible and entertaining. Characters behave in a manner consistent with their established characters and motivations. None of that can be much said of the extremely illogical prequels.
If you tell a logical, clear story, people will usually enjoy it.
The real question is, when are we going to get the sequel to the Han Solo movie, you know the one that will involve spoiler alert, a revived darth maul! Isn’t that the real follow up we are waiting for?
Why not? Her sister, with whom she as apparently somewhat close, just died. She then ended up in a desperate flight for her life along with the rest of the members of the cause she holds dear. People with PTSD sometimes make irrational decisions. Decisions like “saving the ones they love” by preventing people they barely know but have latched into through a shared trauma from saving enough more people they love through acts of extraordinary courage. She was unhinged. But understandably so after the trauma she’d experienced. They could have developed that in the next movie, thus saving the character while acknowledging the stupidity of certain plot points in the preceding movie.
Rose was a well-acted but horribly-written character. Better writing could have salvaged her in Episode IX. Lazy writing cast her aside.
