Starving Artist - we remember you

My view of the ‘good old days’ comes from having lived in them and knowing first hand what they were like vs. many of those around here who weren’t alive then and who’ve been taught nonsense about them from liberal history revisionists.

There’s also the disconnect that comes from my being a conservative and their being liberal. Things that piss me off don’t matter to them, and things that piss them off don’t matter to me. So we’re at loggerheads. But I know all this and I don’t expect to be popular. It’s par for the course around here.

In the beginning try to post in a more polite, tactful and considerate manner, but it was all for naught. There are a lot of good and perfectly nice and honorable people on this board but most of them aren’t to be found in political threads or in the Pit. The kind of people I come into contact with will go ballistic at the slightest hint of a political or moral view different from theirs, and my attempts to be more tactful in my postings still generated the exact same type of abuse they’re engaging in today. So, I decided simply to stop treating them as though they were interested in genuine discussion and adopted the attitude that mhendo refers to where I simply state my opinion and let the chips fall where they may. This annoys them even further because it deprives them of the ability to dissemble, equivocate and obfuscate, which are their favorite defense against ideas they don’t like.

An example of this can be found in the current threads on Bill Cosby. I personally have no idea whether Cosby is guilty of the things he’s been accused of or not, but the mere fact I question it is enough in the minds of most of these people to call me a rape-enabler, rape apologist, and/or rapist or potential rapist myself. It’s really quite ridiculous. And of course they pay absolutely no attention to evidence that some of the claims are false or exaggerated or otherwise not what they claim to be.

The same was the case with the Paterno thread. When news of Jerry Sandusky’s misdeeds first came to light a thread was started here blaming Joe Paterno for it. He was accused of knowing about Sandusky’s raping of children all along and covering up for it. He was accused of being a child raper himself. He was accused along with the administrators of belonging to a cabal of eager child molesters in league with Sandusky, all of whom were allegedly covering for each other and had been for years. Etc., etc., etc. One by one the facts came out and largely due to the efforts of myself and a few other hearty souls each and every one of these ridiculous claims was debunked.

But did this change anyone’s opinion about Joe Paterno? Did it change anyone’s opinion about me? Of course not. If anything it only made them madder.

Same with Woody Allen. I pointed out that Woody Allen was not Soon-Yi Previn’s father, that they never lived together, that he and Mia Farrow were never married and never lived together, and that Soon-Yi was not a child and in fact was the same age when her relationship with Woody Allen began as her mother Mia Farrow was when she began her affair with Frank Sinatra.

Did this change anyone’s opinion about Woody Allen? Did it change anyone’s opinion about me? Of course not, it only made them madder.

There is a very ugly side of human nature to be found on this board, and it is one of the reasons I’ve cut back on my posting activity here. These people aren’t interested in the truth. They aren’t interested in the facts. And they are neither pleased about it nor accepting when they’re shown to be wrong. Instead they reflexively accuse any opponent of the same criminality or moral failings as the subject in question, and when proven wrong continue to cling to their hatred and resentments as though nothing had changed.

So for the most part I only come around these days when I happen to think of some innocuous thing that someone outside the Pit or political threads might have an answer for, or in order to combat the idiotic mob mentality that leaps to the fore every time some successful person finds himself accused of sexual wrongdoing.

Cynic

I read that thread. I don’t recall anyone accusing Paterno and the Penn State administration of being “a cabal of eager child molesters”, only that they should have taken the allegation against Sandusky more seriously and reported it to authorities more skilled in investigating such matters.

Yep… SA’s memory of those threads is unsurprisingly awful.

[Quote=Starving Artist]
My view of the ‘good old days’ comes from having lived in them and knowing first hand what they were like vs. many of those around here who weren’t alive then and who’ve been taught nonsense about them from liberal history revisionists.
[/Quote]

I turned sixty last September, and I’m pretty sure you are within a year or two of that figure. My view of the ‘good old days’ likewise comes from having lived in them, and yet, somehow it varies drastically from yours. How on earth is that even possible? It’s a real conundrum.

Ah man! This isn’t Taco Bell!?!?!

(I thought from the thread title this was about SA finally shuffling off this mortal coil)

You keep making this equivocation, but you’re engaging in the same dishonesty and mendacity you so love to attribute to me. More than once you’ve expressed exasperation with yourself having come back to address me after claiming you’d no longer do so, even going so far on one occasion as to admit your fear that if you didn’t someone, might take what I say seriously – all the while utterly failing to understand that by so doing you not only compliment me but vastly overrate the significance of your own postings.

What a putz! :smiley:

It’s possible for the very reason I said: you’re a liberal and I’m a conservative. The things I liked about that era you didn’t like, and the things I don’t like about this era you either like or don’t care about.

Not that much of a conundrum, really.

I’m starting to think Helena should buy some lottery tickets, since it’s being established she’s a very lucky person in the sense that she managed to find five minutes where Starving Artist was sane and cordial. Clearly this is like unto planetary-alignment in rarity.

Is it “nonsense” that people who weren’t white males may have had completely different, and much, much worse, experiences in those days than you? Do you think the US in the 50s and 60s treated, say, black people with respect and dignity, for the most part?

He can’t even remember how the Paterno thread went; why trust his recollection of the 1950s and 60s?

Ah, so then we are indeed in the realm of opinion rather than fact after all, despite all your hundreds of thousands of words asserting otherwise. Thanks for the clarification.

Nope, did it just the other day too. :smiley:

And note that, predictably, the unwarranted assholery I defended her from came from mhendo, who, also predictably, was wrong in leaping to his interpretation of what she said.

Yeah, I don’t know mhendo well enough to evaluate your opinion of him, so I’ll start from the presumption that you’re as wrong about him as you are about everything else.

Nope.

But I do think black people got vastly better educations in those days, and that many more were raised in actual families with fathers present, and that they lived more safely without the pervasive drug, thug and gang culture that exists today.

I’ve said before and I’ll say again that despite segregation I’d much rather have been a black parent in the 50s and 60s than today.

Why would I take your word, when I can ask actual black people who were alive then? Every one that I’ve ever spoken too does not speak well of the past in this country. According to every one of the black people I’ve spoken to about this, before the 70s, and to a lesser extent up to the 90s (and up to now, to a still lesser but significant extent), the US was not a good place for black people (including black parents) overall.

Who could ever forget that SA classic, “Whites gave blacks their civil rights too rapidly”?

You didn’t ask me what the black people you talked to may have thought. Nor did I ask you to take my word. You asked me if I thought black people were treated with dignity and respect in the 50s and 60s. I agreed that they weren’t, but that in very important and significant ways they have it much worse now.

Bill Cosby and Charles Barkley have got it right. There is very little in this day and age holding black people back. I see black people working all over the place, inter-racial couples are commonplace, and society in general has acknowledged that racial discrimination is wrong and society in the main fights against it. By and large black people are free to make the most of what they can be and they have very little in the way of external forces holding them back. Black doctors and accountants and executives and businessmen are commonplace as well. Most of what’s holding black people back today are self-defeating behaviors – for example the practice of accusing students who try to do well in school or who behave politely and professionally at work of ‘acting white’.

That kind of crap has got to stop if the two races are ever going to live harmoniously with each other.

A dishonest distortion that you’ve tried and failed to gain traction with a number of times before. I realize how much you must be smarting after the numerous times I’ve handed you your ass over the last ten years or so, but you do yourself no favors by relying on such cowardly and dishonest tactics.

I know you feel this way, but the black people I’ve spoken to do not.

Not that I particularly trust Cosby any more, but I’m pretty sure this wasn’t their message.

Most black people don’t do this. Most black don’t exercise self-defeating behaviors. Most black people are hard-working, decent people, and are not holding themselves back in any way.

Like Chris Rock said in an interview this week, the various problems with race relations have never been due to black people, and they still aren’t. Race relations have improved over time because white attitudes and white behavior (in general) have improved. Chris Rock says his daughters have a great life and a great future because the white people around them are the nicest white people in US history, or something to that effect.

In short, the “race problem” in America is not now, and has not ever been, the fault of black people.