It’s been explained repeatedly to you how it could be true. Martin could have moved his arms back after Zimmerman moved off from him.
You, however, have yet to explain why it matters if it’s not true.
Jeantel testified that after TM had lost the creepy ass cracker, this high school kid was by his daddy fiance house. TM then returned over 300 feet back to the “T” area where GZ was and punched GZ in the nose. That doesn’t sound like TM was scared of GZ. It sounds more like TM was angry and wanted to punish/hurt the creepy ass cracker.
No, if Martin was a white kid, there never would have been a trial, because there would have been no uproar when the police department refused to arrest Zimmerman, and no special prosecutor appointed.
Oh, THAT ‘sustained pinning and beating’…:dubious:
It happened AFTER the time gz beat up a cop, who he claimed that he didnt know was a cop (despite the fact the officer stated he took out his badge and identified himself as law enforcement, to which gz told him he didnt care who he was)
and BEFORE he led the Judge to believe he only had $155.00 , when in fact he had 155,000
oh yea, THAT beating
Ahem. Yeah, I’ve heard the strained speculation about the arms. But that is not the only issue, and I think you are perfectly aware of that. Even you find the rest of it so completely unbelievable that your pretzel logic fails to come up with anything to explain it. So you just…skip it. Pretend the only issue is the arms.
And by skipping it, pretending it hasn’t come up, you affirm the fact that it is wholly unbelievable, illogical, irrational, implausible and outside even the most unlikely explanation, making it a lie. Or rather a series of lies hung on one big lie that needs other lies to hold it up.
**The shot and immediately after, According to George Zimmerman
**
[ul]
Martin is straddling GZ, leaning forward; GZ takes aim (his words) mere inches from Martin, the middle of his chest. (I believe the barrel was touching Martin’s clothing, or near enough?) Squeezes the trigger. Gun goes BOOM! and Zimmerman surely felt and heard the bullet leave the chamber.
THEN…
[li]Martin sits up, says something to the effect of “you got me”[/li][li]Martin keels over onto his face into the grass.[/li][li]GZ has to wriggle out from under the keeled over Martin. [/li][li]GZ climbs onto Martin’s back, pulls arms to sides to search for weapons.[/li][li]During this, Good comes out, offers to call 911, GZ says no, don’t, the police are already coming, I need you to help me restrain this guy.[/li][/ul]
George Zimmerman has explained that he did not think he had hit Martin.
George Zimmerman wants us to believe that when that bullet left that chamber directly in front of him and right in the middle of Martin’s chest, when Martin said ( :rolleyes: ) “you got me”, when Martin keeled over onto his face, when Martin suddenly failed to even struggle after being a superhuman attack monster for the previous 3-5 minutes, so insanely violent that GZ had to shoot, that George Zimmerman ***did not think he had hit him. ***
When GZ shot him from inches away, dead center, George didn’t think he’d hit him
When Martin said “you got me”, George didn’t think he hit him
When Martin slumped over onto his face in the grass, George didn’t think he hit him.
When suddenly, immediately following the shot, Martin stopped all forms of smothering, punching, headbanging, George didn’t think he hit him.
Because he didn’t think he hit him, George thought he should climb onto his back and “restrain him”.
Because he didn’t think he hit him, George didn’t think it was necessary to call 911 for medical services. (Also didn’t see the need for medical services for himself, apparently… )
Care to take a shot at why we are supposed to believe that George Zimmerman didn’t think he’d hit[ Trayvon Martin when he shot him at nearly point blank range in the middle of the chest and Martin immediately collapsed exactly the way a shooting victim would? Do YOU believe it? If you do, why? What about that makes the slightest bit of sense to you? Do you think he “misremembered” believing he had not hit Martin and simply imagined everything else? (Well, not everything, he was seen on Martin’s back so we know he did do that).
If you have, in your own mind stopped and considered the complete ridiculousness of this and arrived at an answer that you believe is believable, please share it. Or if you have a plausible reason Zimmerman would lie that does not damn Zimmerman as being fully aware of his wrongdoing AND explains the real reason he got on Martin’s back (since, if he lied about not thinking he’d hit him, climbing on the mortally wounded Martin’s back was a seriously fucked up thing to be doing for any reason at all) and the real reason he told Good not to call 911 because only the police were on their way, please fill me in. Fill us all in. Please.
And… good luck with that.
The media lied to you.
O’Mara originally stated this was a case of self-defense. While he explored every legal option available to him, he never said this was anything but a case of self-defense.
The trial defense never asked the jury to.
so? The evidence is what it is. That you can’t except Martin had no marks on him doesn’t change it as fact. Apparently you don’t understand the advantage of being on top.
The trial defense never asked the jury to accept that. They asked the jury to accept that Martin attacked Zimmerman, for over 38 seconds and that a struggle for a gun ensued which ended the assault.
Why should you have to like it? Your premise was never made by Zimmerman. Per Zimmerman the gun was exposed after the 38+ seconds of beating and there WAS a struggle for it.
He may have used it. Zimmerman stated he thought Martin had something in his hand when he was hitting him. It was his reason for searching Martin. Howeve, a can of fruit juice is not like a maglite. It’s made of thin aluminum and flexes under load.
Zimmerman never claimed he was suffocated for 30 seconds. or 20 seconds. or 10 seconds. So Zimmerman is happy that you’re happy? You do realize he testified that he was screaming for help before knowing it was recorded on a 911 call don’t you? He testified for 5 hours and made a video without a lawyer and the evidence that trickled in after that was consistent with his account.
Should I quote someone you would believe that injuries can occur with little blood?
[/quote]
per the coroner Martin’s body cavity was full of blood which meant his heart kept beating. So unless he falls dead over it’s a reasonable conclusion to make. How long do you think that realization lasted? 5 seconds?
what do you hate about it? If you’re hurt what do you do with your hands? I can’t think of a more obvious thing to do than to grab the affected area.
nothing but his testimony and eye witnesses that said it happened.
retreat from what exactly? Martin was at his house and George was 300 feet away from him walking toward his vehicle. So yes, he was “approached or something”. Based on the Evidence Martin was the one stalking someone at that point.
what awkward silence?
how do you have a civilized conversation when someone sucker punches you in the nose? How does that work exactly? The idiot would be the person who attacked someone instead of calling the police. That would be the same person who called Zimmerman a crazy ass-cracker.
Zimmerman doesn’t have a violent arrest record. Martin on the other hand, was suspended from school for fighting. It’s the reason he was living with his father. His mother could no longer control him. He talked about fighting in his text messages and his girl friend told him he would end up with a bullet in the chest. So while you as an internet psychic know better, his family and friends were all mistaken.
Yes, he killed the person who left his house and walked back and assaulting him.
yes, the person who walked 2 miles in the rain to get one can of fruit drink and one bag of candy for his step brother decided to take the law in his hands and attack someone he though was suspicious.
I would guess he didn’t think he hit him at first because Martin didn’t act as he expected he would. If, like most people, Zimmerman’s main knowledge of gunshot wounds comes from Hollywood, he expected him to fly backwards and bleed massively. Since many of you are taking your belief that he died instantly from the same source, it’s hardly implausible.
Skip and a jump and poof!
First: I don’t know what anyone else believes, but I have no conviction that Martin died instantly. However “not being dead” and “acting, talking breathing, thinking exactly like a person who has not been hit in the lung and heart with a bullet at close range” are miles and miles apart.
And obviously “hit” and “killed” are different. Your peculation is that Zimmerman thought people who have been killed instantly act a certain way, and Martin didn’t act like someone who had been killed instantly. But that is not what Zimmerman said. He said he didn’t think he’d HIT Martin. He didn’t think the ***bullet entered Martins body from inches away aimed dead center. ***:dubious:
Further, unless you can find a statement from Zimmerman to the contrary, my memory (which is imperfect, certainly) is that Zimmerman stated that he didn’t know he’d*** HIT ***Martin until, at the very earliest, the police turned over the body, and my imperfect memory tells me that he didn’t know he’d KILLED him until after he had gone to the police station. So while you slipped in that little “at first”, there’s no “at first” about all the way to the point of the police turning over the body.
So whatever you fantasize Zimmerman fantasized about how a person shot in the lung and heart would act, the way Martin actually reacted was not consistent with the behavior of a person who has not been shot at all. If Zimmerman sincerely thought his bullet missed from a few inches away, at dead center, he is clearly too mentally impaired to be allowed out without a keeper, never mind being allowed out with a loaded gun.
While your thin guess based on nothing is better than ignoring the issue altogether, it is a complete fail.
Ok, what is the evidence that Zimmerman had his gun holstered in a position which would have been unaccessable if he were on his back?
Again you are not answering my question (which is fine, I did not ask it of you. But please stop pretending that you are answering it). You are taking a lot of issues you have with Zimmerman’s story and referring the entire group of them as a “hole.”
That’s not what I am asking for. I am asking what the biggest single inconsistency, implausibility, gap, or what have you is.
Since you are unable to name one, I assume you concede that there is no single large hole in his story.
What exactly do you think this means? He knew Martin was screaming, he knew people heard it, the 911 recording was just extra. He knew there was no way he could say it was self-defense if he didn’t claim it was him screaming: “yeah, the kid who was beating me up was screaming bloody murder and I had to kill him to save myself - I have no idea why he was screaming like that!” Which is why he started telling people right off the bat that it was him. He also was present for everything else that happened and knew exactly what he had to cover in case it was seen or heard by neighbors to sell his self-defense story.
A beating heart is not the same as someone not hit by the bullet. That was shot from inches away. Dead center. And Martin DID keel over. After stating out loud (supposedly) “you got me”. And Zimmerman claims he didn’t know he’d hit him at all ***until the police got there. ***
Really? After a 200 pound guy has been sitting on your back, on your collapsed lungs, on your heart with a bullet in it, for however long. You are still alive, still conscious, and still able to draw both arms under your body.
Yeah, right. Sure. Absolutely.
Man, the contortions you go through to hang on to believing are stunning. Really stunning.
All of which is irrelevant. The only thing that counts is whether George thought he was in danger of being killed or maimed.
First, there doesn’t need to be one single thing just because you want it.
But I thought it was pretty obvious that I think his claim that he didn’t think he’d hit Martin until, at the earliest, the police arrived, is gigantic pile of wholly ridiculous bullshit that no person of the most basic intelligence could possibly believe.
I’m laffin’ out loud. Quite the dodge…you are a funny guy.
Everything we know about the way the world works?
Who says I wanted it? What I wanted was to scrutinize Tollhouse’s claim in a focused way. That’s difficult if he is jumping from point to point.
Besides which, if the “biggest hole” in the story is minor, or based on misinformation, it undermines Tollhouse’s position quite a bit.
(1) Can you provide evidence that Zimmerman made this claim? e.g. “I don’t think I hit Martin until, at the earliest, the police arrived”?
(2) What is the evidence that this claim is false?
Ok, and there is no other evidence besides the general knowledge of Stoid and/or Mr-Pookie?
Watch the re-enactment.
The most obvious to me and others who aren’t scrambling to come up with ways to justify Zimmerman’s actions is the fact that Martin was found with his hands under him. But if you want to embrace the inherently unreasonable, unbelievable fiction that Martin continued to live, be conscious, and have the strength and will to move both of his arms from a spread wide position to back under his body after 200 pounds of Zimmerman sat on his collapsed lungs and destroyed heart to spread those arms apart and search him, fine.
The other evidence is the fact that George Zimmerman has been reported to be a relatively intelligent human being, getting A’s in his classes, being among the best students. So we know for a fact that he’s not mentally challenged. And only someone who is severely mentally challenged, incapable of understanding the most basic physics, the kind of physics a small child understands automatically, could shoot someone in the center of their chest at close range, smelling, hearing and feeling the shot, observing the person they shot announce that they had been gotten, and then falling over on their face, and have any doubt whatsoever that they had successfully “hit” that person for even a moment, much less for all the moments that followed when he climbed on Martin and did whatever it was he did.
And if you think otherwise, then I can’t begin to think what could have drawn you to Uncle Cecil’s little forum for fighting ignorance in the first place; it’s clearly not something that matters to you in the slightest.