…I’m a huge baseball fan, and I can’t get enough of it. The question I have, as the title of this thread implies, is about stealing home. Obviously, it’s not an every-game occurance. My question is how it occurs in the first place. You have a runner standing 90 feet from home (give or take a few due to leading off the bag). A pitcher is standing 60 feet, 6 inches away from home plate. He delivers a pitch that averages between 85-95mph. The speed of the object thrown is substanially higher than the speed of the runner, and it has to traverse a shorter distance. So how can a runner cross home plate safely travelling a longer distance at a slower speed?
It’s all in the jump that the runner gets. The runner on third has a big head start, so the fault in your reasoning is that both the pitcher and the runner start at the same time. If the runner on third begins to go as the pitcher sets, the pitcher must throw home or risk balking. As such, the runner gets a few seconds, or more. Obviously, it’s not easy, but it happens. Although, I don’t know what would possess someone to try, as it is probably not a statistically smart move.
Jackie Robinson(20 successful steals home out of 32 attempts) probably never stopped to think about the odds.
You really have to think in terms of risk vs. reward on a steal of home.
If you have a runner on 3rd and there’s less than 2 outs, you have a pretty good chance of scoring and stealing home gains you little vs. the chance of picking up an out and losing a runner.
Most steals of home now occur on double steals (I think that has always been the case).
In an era of high offense, the steal of home is going the way of the dodo.
Most base stealers will tell you that the only base harder to steal than home is first, which actually adds to the challenge.
They will also tell you it takes some very specific things coming into the mix for a runner to make it safely. It should be a left-handed pitcher on the mound who throws junk, a right-handed batter and a right-handed catcher.
The left-handed pitcher throwing from the stretch has his back to the runner most of his time on the mound almost forcing him to ignore the base runner on third thus giving the runner a slight edge. The right-handed batter blocks the catcher’s view of the approaching runner and a right handed catcher usually leads just a touch with his glove hand while catching thus obstructing his view just a bit more.
If the pitcher is throwing junk (especially knuckle balls) the majority of the catcher’s focus is on his primary job, catching the pitch, in that way, giving the runner just one more chance.
Willie McCovy used to periodically steal home on the catcher’s throw back to the pitcher. He claimed there was even more time available for this because the ball had to go back to the pitcher before it went back to the catcher and neither one was set for a rapid exchange. Once again right-handed catcher to left handed pitcher was best.
Can you tell I once did a feature on this when I was a young sports reporter? Some runners like others on base as a distraction to the pitcher and catcher while others liked to lull the battery into a false sense of security.
I would call up my old newspaper to get a copy of the story, but it has gone the way of the Titanic (no, it wasn’t made into a movie, it went under).
TV time said:
One of us is confused here. Do you mean Willie McCovey of the San Francisco Giants, he of the famously damaged knees, who stole only 26 bases his whole career with a season max of 4?
Or do you mean his long-time team mate and fellow HoFer, Willie Mays? This Willie stole 338 bases topped by 40 in 1956. Still, I can’t imagine him, or any other post-war player stealing home ‘periodically’, although I seem to recall Rod Carew having 10 steals of home one year.
Carew actually “only” stole home 7 times, in 1969, tying Pete Reiser for the Major League record.
Except, I just found a site that says Cobb stole home 8 times in 1912. Help!
Total Baseball seems to think that 7 (Carew, Reiser) is the record, but the details from Cobb’s era aren’t complete so he might have had more in a season. It just hasn’t been verified.
Another source says that in 1915, Cobb stole home 5 times in one month.
If Willie McCovey stole home, it would have been on the back end of a double steal. That’s how Jim Thome got his steal of home and I believe Jason Giambi got one that way against the Dodgers last year.
It can also happen on a wild pitch. I saw one once (don’t remember when or where, except that it was an Indian who pulled it off-- Go Tribe!) where the pitch was a VERY wide ball, which took a weird bounce, and it took long enough for the catcher to scramble over to it for the runner to make it home.
Come to think of it, it might have been Thome, but I don’t think it’s the same one that BobT was talking about… I only remember one base on the steal.
Well, that, of course, would not be a SB, unless the runner wsa going with the pitch. That is another factor in stealing home: the pitch can be erratic. It need not be an actual wild pitch, but one that is high and out would give the runner more time. Then you have to factor in the time it takes the catcher to reach down and tag the runner. A high pitch would give the runner more time. Also, the runner can avoid the tag with a deft slide, long enough to reach the plate safely.
Not to question your expertise on this matter, but wouldn’t a left-handed catcher be more advantageous because his glove (and presumably the ball) would be on the first base side of the plate?
I have never seen a left handed catcher in a major league game. I did see a lefty catching in the bullpen once, and that was remarkable enough for the announcer to comment on. You probably shouldn’t wait for a lefty catcher before you attempt to steal home, because it probably isn’t going to happen very soon.
In general, lefties don’t play catcher (or second, short, or third). They probably could, but it is a generally accepted practice that a left-handed catcher would run into two big problems: 1) they would be facing the wrong way when fielding a bunt and trying to make a throw to first and 2) they are more likely to have trouble making a throw to second on a steal attempt because most batters are right-handed and the catcher would have to throw around them.
Conversely on point 2, it’s easier to steal third base with a righthanded batter up because the catcher doesn’t have a good view.
There have been a few lefthanded catchers in the majors, but they’ve only played in a few games and usually only in emergency situations. Mike Squires of the White Sox was one of the last ones I remember back in the early 1980s.
I imagine that if you walk into your local sporting goods store, you won’t find a catcher’s mitt for a lefty.
As for Jim Thome’s steal of home, it was a planned double steal. I believe it was in a game against the Royals and it was the only run of the game, one of those rare games where the only run scored on a steal of a home. It was 3 or 4 years ago.
While we’re talking baseball, may I ask a baseball question? (I just did, you say.) I know the answer to it, but it’s been a long favorite of mine. It is not a trick question and you may enjoy trying to answer it. (Then again, maybe not.) The question is: How can there be 4 outs in half an inning (one side at bat)? If the Moderators don’t mind, I’ve asked the question, and I will give the correct answer tonight if no one answers it by then.
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Batter one steps up, and is out (how is not important, really, so we’ll say that he pops out to short)
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Batter two grounds back to the pitcher (again, how he gets out is immaterial)
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Batter three strikes out, but the pitch gets by the catcher. Batter three reaches first base safely, but it IS recorded as a strikeout in the books.
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Batter four strikes out (or whatever)
Is that what you had in mind?
Sit back, my friends, and here is the answer. Not only 4 outs in half an inning, but on one play. This actually happened, according to Thomas Boswell, in a league game in Cuba.
Bases loaded, no outs. Batter lines one into one of the outfield gaps. Runners on 1st and 2nd bases take off at the crack of the bat. Outfielder manages to get to the ball and catches it (out 1). He wings the ball into the infield, and doubles off the runner from 2nd (out 2), and he throws it to first and forces that runner out (out 3).
Here’s where it gets interesting: The runner on 3rd tags and scores, and the run counts because he scores before the 3rd out. However, the alert 3rd baseman calls for the ball, touches 3rd base, and appeals that the runner tagged up too soon (before the ball was caught). This results in a legal 4th out and negates the run!
Incidentally, there was an interesting play in yesterday’s Orioles/Red Sox game. Runner on first, and the batter lines one to the 3rd baseman. 3rd baseman catches the ball and throws wildly to 1st in an attempt to double off the runner. The throw goes into the stands, so the runner is awarded two bases. He gets around 2nd base, and the umpire tells him to take 3rd base. So, the runner ** runs past 2nd without touching it**! Of course, the pitcher got the ball, tossed it to 2nd, and the runner was out on appeal. Because the runner was out, the throwing error was annulled. Don’t see that too often! (And yes, the third base coach told the runner to go back and touch 2nd base, begged him to, but the runner refused because the umpire told him to go to 3rd.)
Knight, you’re right! Boy, that was quick. We got some real baseball experts out there.
The funny thing is, I was talking about this exact scenario to my 5 a.m. walking buddies this morning.
I take it back. Knight you’re wrong. What you said was, at first glance, roughly what I had in mind. You said that it actually happened. It couldn’t. In your scenario, all the outs are force outs. Hence, the run could not score. It doesn’t make any difference if he crossed the plate before the 3d out, it still doesn’t count.
The scenario I had in mind is this. One out and runners on 1st and 3d. Batter hits a fly ball, which is caught. Both runners tag up. The runner on 1st is out at 2d for the 3d out, but in the meanwhile, the runner on 3d scores. However, they appeal to the 3d base umpire, tag the base, and the runner that was on 3d is ruled out for tagging up too soon. Four outs.
I don’t know if that ever really happened. But it’s possible.