Steven Brust

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Manda JO *
**

You know, Fenris, over the years I have found you somewhat amusing and all, but now I want to have your baby. You cool with that? **

Yes. When do we start.

**

If it wasn’t terribly illegal and immoral and just plain wrong (cough cough) I would have gotten ahold of the book through interlibrary loan and labriously photocopied every page. But like I said, that’s illegal. I keep waiting for the Harry Potter phenomenon to bring it back into print–you’d think with battered up old copies of it going for $30+ on Ebay, the publishing world would wise up. Certainly some other great fantasy works have been brough back into print on the strengh of the Rowlings sucess (Diana Wynne Jones entire body of work is back in print, for example).**

Much of Wynne Jone’s stuff is in print, but not all. IIRC, her best work (and one that’ll appeal to ANY Zelazny fan) is still out of print Archer’s Goon, She also wrote an adult novel “Changeover” that’s not SF/F and I’ve never seen. Lots of her stuff is back, but she has a HUGE bibliography and after years of looking, I’ve only gotten about 2/3ds-3/4ths of it.

**

Have you read Wrede’s Marelion the Magician and the sequel, Magician’s Ward? They are set in the same universe, ut without the same epistolary structure, and while good ,they aren’t quite as perfectly charming. Have you read Freedom? I am pretty sure it started out as the same game as Sorcery and Cecelia–it’s the same format writ large, and I know that Wrede, Brust, Stevermer, and Wrede are all part of the same cadre of writers.

**
I haven’t read Freedom (I recently got it but I haven’t been in the right mood, if you know what I mean).

I’ve read the Marlion stuff but while it was competent, it didn’t overwhelm me…too…‘romance novely’ if you know what I mean (what’s funny is that I loved Bujold’s A Civil Campaign which was up for both the Hugo AND the “Sapphire” awards. (the latter is the big romance novel award, apparently). I prefered her “dragons” stuff and her “Lyra” stuff.

Have you read Stevermer’s A College of Magics?

But if you want just an impossibly good fantasy that’s even in print and new and stuff: Paula Volsky’s The Grand Ellipse. The only thing annoying about it is that Volsky didn’t just set it in the real world and uses thinly veiled versions of real countries. The premise: In <cough> Austria(? Where was mad king Ludwig from?) an alchemist has invented sentient fire. Meanwhile <cough> Germany is preparing to invade <cough> France. Mad King Ludwig <cough> decides to hold the great race from “Around the World in 80 days” in the interests of world peace. The winner gets an audience with him and other goodies. A lady journalist in <cough> “France” is persuaded to take part in the race since, if she wins, she might be able to con the secret of sentient fire from the king, which is the only thing that can save <cough> France from <cough> Germany. It’s charming and wonderful and about halfway between Wrede and Jones in tone. And it just came out in paperback.

**

dorkusmalorkusmafia, Teckla is depressing, and dreary, and not really very rewarding. I always assumed that Brust hiumself was going through a nasty divorce or something along those lines when he wrote it.

**
Yeah. I got that feeling too. dorcus, if you’re gonna continue the series, you’ll have to read it, it’s the keystone book. But hold your nose, muddle through and hold onto the knowledge that the later books get better fast.

BTW: Miller Point taken regarding Cawti killing the Commie, but she coulda cut his hand off or something. But to stand there and take it? I don’t buy it. And even discounting that, the character didn’t sound like Cawti before or since. There was a shrewish tone that wasn’t in any of the other books.

Fenris

[MandaJo]

Looks like Archer’s Goon will be in print this spring.

Have you read Stevermer’s A College of Magics?

I believe I read it five or so years ago, but I remember NOTHING about it, which is unusual for me–I need to pick it up again one day soon.

Did you like The Homeward Bounders*? I ask because I think it is one of the most interesting children’s books ever published, and I don’t think I 've ever met anyone who ever actually read it. I really should probably stop hijacking this thread.

To bring this back around to Brust, who really dosen’t deserve to be forgotten , you are in for a treat when you get in the right mood for Freedom–it’s a dream for people who just enjoy language. But you are right about needing to be in the right mood for it.

I’ll be sure to check out Paula Volsky–that sounds like just my kind of thing.

[amarinth]

*Originally posted by dorkusmalorkusmafia *
I figured it was something like that. I wouldn’t say that Butler is a B author though. She really seems much more like literature than others out there. I do have a guilty pleasure of reading Robert Aspirin’s Myth series though. Shhh don’t tell anyone.

By “B” I meant as in the first letter of their last names.
That’s all.

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Manda JO *
**Looks like Archer’s Goon will be in print this spring.
**

Woo-hoo!

**

Did you like The Homeward Bounders*? I ask because I think it is one of the most interesting children’s books ever published, and I don’t think I 've ever met anyone who ever actually read it. I really should probably stop hijacking this thread. **

Why? It’s fun!

Yes, I’ve read Homeward Bounders and it gave me nightmares (in a good way). I was just creeped out by the whole concept and the wonderful sense of mood. It’s a great book, but not as fun as some of her others. I read it at about the same time I read Archer’s Goon so I’ve always gotten the two linked in my mind.

On the topic of children’s books, have you read Alan Garner? Very powerful writer, halfway between the darker Wynne-Jones (like Homeward Bounders ), Tolkien (Hobbit, more than LotR) and a dash of C.S Lewis. The Weirdstone of Brisingamen(sp) is an incredible book.

Um…and all these authors would be enjoyed by people who ALSO like Brust. So there.

Fenris

[Zanshin]

*Originally posted by Miller *
Well, the novel is written from Vlad’s POV, and the changes Cawti is going through are suppsoed to blind-side him. The point is that Vlad has been taking his relationship with Cawti for granted, and hasn’t noticed that his wife is not the same woman he married.

I can see that was the effect that Brust was going for, and it’s possible that part of my disdain for this book is that I really like Vlad as a character and I hate to see bad (and unfair) things happening to him. I never got the impression that he took Cawti (or his relationship with her) for granted, and her sudden shift in attitude toward him seemed cruel and unfair. And what’s even more disturbing to me, she became a completely unlikeable character. I enjoyed her in the previous books – she provided a good and intelligent foil for Vlad. In *Teckla/i] and its successors, every time she showed up, I cringed because I hated the character she’d become: shrewish, nasty, unreasonable. I realize that in good fiction, characters change and mature, but I hate when a character I previously enjoyed reading about becomes unlikeable. Just personal taste in theme and style, I guess.

[Miller]

I think it’d be interesting if at some point Brust revisits the events of Teckla from Cawti’s POV. I agree that Cawti appears as shrewish, nasty, etc, but keep in mind the person describing her actions is the man she’s walking out on. I think that would color his perception of events, somewhat.

[MandaJo]

I am about to run out the door, but I wanted to say one quick thing:
Spoilers:

I haven’t read Teckla in a long time, but even though I found it horribly depressing, I never thought Cawti became a completely unlikeable charecter. I thought Brust went to great pains to show that she was troubled by the fact that she had undergone a sincere and profound change that was making it impossible for her to go on with the man she loved. It’s a very realistic and hideous dilemma, and that’s why I found reading it to be like nails across a chalkboard. Cawti wasn’t wrong tto decide that social inequalities were more inportant to her than Vlad. Vlad wasn’t wrong for deciding he couldn’t accept the changed Cawti. That is why it was so wrenching.

[Fenris]

From Manda** Cawti wasn’t wrong tto decide that social inequalities were more inportant to her than Vlad. Vlad wasn’t wrong for deciding he couldn’t accept the changed Cawti. That is why it was so wrenching.**

I really, REALLY disagree. Cawti never once gave Vlad a chance to decide what’s important. She decided that he wouldn’t accept and started sneaking around on him. I’ll get back to this in a second.

In a large part, a flaw in the writing is that we never see Cawti go through this change. One minute she’s ummm…The Hand Of the Jhereg(? whatever she and her pal were called): strong, smart, independant, in love with Vlad and trustworth, the next minute she’s Shrew-Bitch-Woman, social crusader for JUSTICE and living doormat.

And her behavior was, IMO inexcusable. She began sneaking around doing her commie-revolutionary crap (which we as the audience know is doomed to failure 'cause of the Cycle). When Vlad catches her sneaking around, she immediatly defends sneaking by saying (in essence) “You just wouldn’t get it and I didn’t tell you 'cause I knew you wouldn’t understand.” Right there is the moment she loses any sympathy or crediblity. IIRC, Vlad wasn’t so much pissed that she became a Commie, it’s that she didn’t trust him enough to share this profound change with him…and then blames him for her lack of honesty.

Had we seen her walking along the street, get captivated by the Commie during one of the Commie’s speeches, rush right home and try to talk to Vlad about her newfound revoutionary feelings and Vlad blow her off, ok. But instead, she snuck around for what…months? with the Commie and her excuse of “I knew you wouldn’t understand so I didn’t bother” is unforgivable. 'Cause the Vlad I knew would have understood, if not agreed. What he couldn’t accept was that she’d been sneaking around on him, not that she was now a Commie.

In the same vein, the “real” Cawti from the earlier books would have simply rushed into Vlad’s office, excitedly told him about her profound, life-changing experience and expected him to either share it or be happy for and support her. Had she done that, I wouldn’t have much problem with her and we’d have seen a marriage dissolve as two people grew apart. Instead we see Cawti having an affair (so to speak…it’s exactly the same breach of trust, just no sex) and then blame Vlad for getting mad 'cause she did.

Cawti was the one who destroyed the marriage, not Vlad, and her attempt to pin the blame on him was disgusting.

Fenris

[Zanshin]

I think Fenris expressed it much more eloquently than I ever could. The Cawti we got to know in the first couple of books would have told Vlad about her new feelings and her association with the Commies. She knows he hates Draegaerans as much as she does, so I’d think she would at least have given him the chance to join her in defying them. When she didn’t do that, I thought that was a departure from the character that’d been established in Jhereg and Yendi. That’s the biggest contributor to my dislike of Teckla (and Cawti’s character in succeeding books). She pushed her new life-change ideal on him without giving him a chance to react or to accept it, and by the time she finally let him know what was going on, it was already too late. Even if Vlad would have wanted to join her as part of La Resistance, I don’t think she would have let him (she’d already built up a big resentment against him, anyways).

[dorkusmalorkusmafia]

Amarinth, you totally whooshed me. I couldn’t get of the B-List thing.

I started reading Teckla last night but didn’t finish it. It actually put me to sleep which is a fairly rare occurance when I read. I have about 50 pages to go until it is done.

So far Cawti and Vlad are constantly fighting. It makes for a difficult read but it makes their universe a little more believable since they have their own problems. I don’t understand why neither of them can talk about what they are doing on a personal level with eachother. In the first book I read (which seems to have taken place a few weeks before Teckla…I think there was a reference in Teckla as to that fact but I don’t have the book with me now to double check it), Cawti is a wonderful help to Vlad when he starts having problems with his assassination plot. She takes up some slack on the general housework and provides emotional support. In Teckla, (again, supposedly a few weeks later), her personality changes to some raging, close-lipped harpy who seems out to antagonize Vlad rather than explain what she is doing. Vlad then resents this and starts spying on her instead thus becoming a Creepy Stalker ™ following her around wherever she goes. I just don’t get it.

However, I have been more and more impressed with his work as I read more. His plots move quickly and take place in very short time frames from what I typically read unlike Robert Jordan (thanks for making me remember that loathingly awful author, Miller. Love ya, mean it. :)). I am liking more how his puzzle pieces fit together even if I sometimes find them to be contrived.

[MandaJo]

Like I said, it’s been a long, long time since I read Teckla, so I can’t really disagree wiht you, just sort of present alternate viewpoints 9though about one more ound of this and I am gonna have to go reread the whole series for the umpteenth time).

Fenris

In a large part, a flaw in the writing is that we never see Cawti go through this change. One minute she’s ummm…The Hand Of the Jhereg(? whatever she and her pal were called): strong, smart, independant, in love with Vlad and trustworth, the next minute she’s Shrew-Bitch-Woman, social crusader for JUSTICE and living doormat.

This in particular is why I tend to think that the collapse of the relationship with Cawti is a reflection of Brust’s private life, and the only major plot point not worked out far in advance. And I didn’t find the idea of Cawti blindsiding Vlad to be totally unbelievable. ButI owuld have to reread Teckla to tell you why, and I might even reread it and find out that I agree with you. THe problem is that 1) I am all pumped up about rereading Freedom now and 2) I just gota bunch of book recomendations from this guy I know on a message board, so I odn’t see me rereading it anytime real soon. When I do, I’ll starta new thread and we can have this out chapter and verse.

Now then, on to the more exciting hijack:

This is the thing that gets me about The Homeward Bounders (and this is a major huge freaking spoiler and I am putting it in a spoiler box because everone who hsn’t read this book needs to go get it now)

The thing that gets me is the end. Kid’s books don’t end like that–I mean, sure, horrible things happen to kids, but in the end something good always makes up for the loss of home or family. The aching lonely pain of adolecence is always shown as something fixable, but for Jamie we are shown it is just never going to end. This blew my mind as a kid. And the whole “Hope is an Anchor” thing. I was raised as a member of the “Never give up your dream” generation, and I found the idea that hope can be a burden to be an incredibly liberating one–like the Narrator in “The Princess Bride” feeling liberated by discovering that life isn’t fair)

I haven’t read Garner–I’ll have to check him out. Do you like Lloyd Alexander? He’s best known for the Prydain chronicles, but I think his “Westmark” trilogy is fantastic–it has that same quality of good, clever writing that some of these authors share., though it is quite a bit darker.

And in keeping with the epistolary theme, if not the fantasy, you’ve read Jean Wevbster’s Daddy-long legs, yes? Have you read the little known sequel, Dear Enemy? I think it’s a great deal better–a lot more complex, and Jean Webster’s socialist leanings come throuh a lot more.

I don’t know why epistolary novels fell by the wayside–some of the Amazon reviews of Freedom talk about it’s “original” structure–and I kind of hope the internet/email phenomenon will bring them back. I’ve played with the idea of writing an epistolary novel in emails, and I think a novel that told through a series of BBS threads would be cool beyond bearing

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Manda JO *
Like I said, it’s been a long, long time since I read Teckla, so I can’t really disagree wiht you, just sort of present alternate viewpoints 9though about one more ound of this and I am gonna have to go reread the whole series for the umpteenth time).

Me too.

**

Now then, on to the more exciting hijack:

This is the thing that gets me about The Homeward Bounders (and this is a major huge freaking spoiler and I am putting it in a spoiler box because everone who hsn’t read this book needs to go get it now)**

(spoiler snipped)
I know…that’s what gave it the bizarre, unsettling creepy feel. It was stunningly good but I don’t know that I liked it, if you know what I mean. And I loved your Princess Bride comparison. I know exactly what you mean.

**

I haven’t read Garner–I’ll have to check him out. Do you like Lloyd Alexander? He’s best known for the Prydain chronicles, but I think his “Westmark” trilogy is fantastic–it has that same quality of good, clever writing that some of these authors share., though it is quite a bit darker.**

I’ve only read the Prydain stuff and I thought that it was too episodic. Each chapter and book was good but it just didn’t…fit together for me. I’m goin’ on a used book hunt at the end of the month, I’ll pick up the “Westmark” stuff and give it a try. I haven’t read the Jean Webster stuff. The fact that there’s socialist leanings isn’t a plus for me, but I can live with it if the story’s good. I really like the epistolary format, but you’re right: there’s not much out there. **
[/quote]

**

I’ve played with the idea of writing an epistolary novel in emails, and I think a novel that told through a series of BBS threads would be cool beyond bearing **

That is a good idea!

Fenris

[Miller]

More spoilers ahead:

I don’t think you can look at what was going on between Cawti and Vlad and say one side or the other was in the wrong. Both of them made errors, and saying one or the other of them was at fault for their marriage disintegrating isn’t really fair. Absolutely, Cawti should have made more of an effort to include Vlad in the changes in her life, but at the same time, her reasons for excluding Vlad are not entirely invalid: Vlad can be an enourmous jerk. When he does find out about Cawti, what is his solution to the problem? Knock off the lead Commie guy. Yeah, that’ll make Cawti love him again.

Cawti was going through more than just raising her social consciousness. She’d decided that being an assassin was immoral. How the hell do you broach that sort of subject? “Honey, you know how you’ve spent years honing your skills as an assassin, rising to the top of your profession, and amassing more power in the House of Jhereg than any Easterner in history? Would you mind not doing it anymore?” There’s no way Vlad was going to accept these changes, and Cawti damn well knew it. Rather than making an issue of it up front, she tried to have both: the improved social consciousness and her marriage with the guy she was in love with. This was stupid of her, but not malicious or unforgivable. Not to mention that Vlad was, as a member of the Jhereg, implicitly responsible for a lot of the problems in the Easterner’s Quarter. She’s basically in a position where the man she loves represents everything she perceives as wrong in society, and the problem is compounded in that those faults were a large part of what drew them together in the first place. I don’t think Cawti was right to keep secrets from Vlad, but I certainly don’t envy the position she found herself in.

Again, I don’t think the “sudden” change in Cawti was a writing flaw, it was a deliberate decision. It’s supposed to blindside the reader because it blindsides Vlad, and that’s what makes the story all the more gut-wrenching. I still found (find) Cawti to be tremendously sympathetic. Not perfect, of course, and thank God, because there’s nothing more boring than reading about a bunch of perfect people.

[Dangerosa]

Manda Jo,

Are you local to the Twin Cities?

Kara Dalkey and Will Shetterley (Emma’s husband - or at least was back then and I haven’t heard any differently) were also part of that writers group. Other local Mpls SF authors or authors with strong Mpls connections include Jane Yolen, John M. Ford, Gordon Dickson (who has passed away), Neil Gaimen, Patricia Wrede (I think Pat was a Scribbly), Joel Rosenberg.

At one time I knew all of these people casually (Joel Rosenberg came to a party at my house. And I used to hang with Steve’s son Corwin) even though I don’t read SF much. They are all friends of friends (or in some cases, friends of friends of friends - but Minneapolis can be a small town).

Minicon was one hell of a SF Con. Glen Cook would sell used books in the Huckster’s room. I haven’t been in years and years.

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Miller *
**More spoilers ahead:

I don’t think you can look at what was going on between Cawti and Vlad and say one side or the other was in the wrong. **

I disagree Miller (respectfully, of course! And I love this sort of discussion!) See below.

**

Both of them made errors, and saying one or the other of them was at fault for their marriage disintegrating isn’t really fair. Absolutely, Cawti should have made more of an effort to include Vlad in the changes in her life, but at the same time, her reasons for excluding Vlad are not entirely invalid: Vlad can be an enourmous jerk.**

But by not giving him a chance, she’s betrayed her relationship with him, same as if she had an affair. I agree that most likely he’d have reacted badly, but by not giving him the benefit of the doubt, I put the blame fully 100% on her shoulders.

**

When he does find out about Cawti, what is his solution to the problem? Knock off the lead Commie guy. Yeah, that’ll make Cawti love him again.**

Well, it might not have improved his relationship with Cawti, but MY appreciation of him went up a few notches (I really really hated the woman-beating Commie. he’s right up there with Archbishop Loris from the Deryni books for obnoxious, hatible characters I wanna see die slowly)

**

Cawti was going through more than just raising her social consciousness. She’d decided that being an assassin was immoral. How the hell do you broach that sort of subject? “Honey, you know how you’ve spent years honing your skills as an assassin, rising to the top of your profession, and amassing more power in the House of Jhereg than any Easterner in history? Would you mind not doing it anymore?” There’s no way Vlad was going to accept these changes, and Cawti damn well knew it. Rather than making an issue of it up front, she tried to have both: the improved social consciousness and her marriage with the guy she was in love with. This was stupid of her, but not malicious or unforgivable.**

I disagree (respectfully) again. Imagine if she found that she was in love with another guy and started sneaking around with him. To me, it’s the same thing. The marriage ended when she didn’t trust him to let her grow and change (the fact that he probably wouldn’t have is besides the point since she didn’t give him the chance).

**

She’s basically in a position where the man she loves represents everything she perceives as wrong in society, and the problem is compounded in that those faults were a large part of what drew them together in the first place. I don’t think Cawti was right to keep secrets from Vlad, but I certainly don’t envy the position she found herself in.**

Y’know, if Cawti had gone to Vlad and said “I can’t be a Jhereg anymore, I wanna go back East or start a farm or something, but I don’t want to keep killing and I just can’t keep doing this.” there would have been room for discussion, debate, compromise…something. It probably would have ended badly with Vlad feeling like he has to choose between his job and his wife, but she’d have given him the dignity of making that choice. Instead, he’s still dangling from her hook…what? three, four years now?

Fenris

[amarinth]

Disclaimer: I haven’t read Teckla (or actually, any of the books) in a while, and I won’t have time to soon.

But, while what Cawti did wasn’t good, it was understandable (to me at least). I don’t remember the Cawti that would have come home and shared that immediately with Vlad - IIRC, they both had a tendency to withdraw a bit, and sit and think things out and work them through for a while before sharing them with each other - that deliberateness is what made them good assassins. In this case, the deliberateness and the thoughtfulness would have led her to the conclusion that Vlad wouldn’t have been for commie guy. (Again, IIRC, Vlad always uses the system, he abuses it, and thwarts it, and finds loopholes, but he is a part (in a way) of the system - and I think she knew that) And so she didn’t tell him. I also got the feeling (I think) that she wasn’t sure how far she was for commie guy (to me, neither of them hates Dragaereans, their feelings are way more complex than simple hate which would have made the whole thing easier for all involved) - and not knowing what she wanted, she didn’t want to force the issue.

I also got the feeling that at the time, Cawti was feeling very alone - Norathar, her closest friend for a very long time, was for all intents and purposes out of the picture, she was part of a social class of people who didn’t even think of her as human, and she was growing away from her husband, and to me it explained (not excused) some of her attitude.

And a great deal of what Miller said.

[Miller]

I should just change my screenname to Spoilers Ahead:

Fenris, I agree with most of what you said, I just disagree with the magnitude of her transgression. And I feel sorry for her for the position she found herself in. I thnk at some point she needed to make a decision about wether she was going to follow her new-found conscience or stay with Vlad, and she waited too long to make it. I’ve made similar, if lesser, mistakes myself. I found myself identifying more strongly with Cawti. It helps some that if Cawti had done things the way you suggest, I would probably have been 100% on her side. Well, except for the slap-happy commie part. But becoming more concerned for other Easterners and not killing people for money are both admirable things, and I can just imagine the sort of ass Vlad would’ve been about the whole thing. The way Brust wrote it, things aren’t so clear cut. As much as I like what Cawti is doing, my sympathies are limited by the way she did it, and Vlad still gets to be an ass about things, but now he has a valid excuse. And either way, it ended the same way: with Vlad having to make a choice between his job and his wife. And despite everything, he still picked his wife, which makes me all mushy inside.

Incidentally, I don’t think it’s been much longer than a year since they split up, as the story currently stands. He left before Cawti’s pregnancy was showing, and I got the definite impression that the kid is still an infant, although I don’t think there’s been any specific mention of how old the tyke is.

BTW, I’m enjoying the heck out of this debate, too. If you want, you can even disagree with me a little disrespectfully.

[Miller]

Also, ditto to what amarinth just said.

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Miller *
**I should just change my screenname to Spoilers Ahead:

Fenris, I agree with most of what you said, I just disagree with the magnitude of her transgression.

**

I think you’re right. We’re saying the same thing, I’m just um…‘more pissed’ (?) by Cawti’s behavior than you are (or you’re more forgiving…whichever).
**

I found myself identifying more strongly with Cawti.

** Whereas I felt for Vlad. Hmm…this says something. I don’t know what it says, but it says something, dammit!

**

But becoming more concerned for other Easterners and not killing people for money are both admirable things, and I can just imagine the sort of ass Vlad would’ve been about the whole thing. The way Brust wrote it, things aren’t so clear cut. As much as I like what Cawti is doing, my sympathies are limited by the way she did it, and Vlad still gets to be an ass about things, but now he has a valid excuse.

**

This is the other main area of disagreement: by Cawti “cheating” on Vlad, he wins. “You woulda been an ass, so I couldn’t tell you.” is the worst sort of bullshit argument because you can’t defend yourself against it: it’s like telling someone they’re being defensive: what can they say? “No, I’m not!”? I think on a literary level (for me) Brust blew it completely by doing that as it put me 100% in Vlad’s camp.

I agree with Manda Jo. It feels like Brust had a nasty personal break-up and it spewed into the book. I think the book would have been more interesting if we’d seen Cawti try to talk to Vlad about her newfound concerns, Vlad brush them off (which most likely he would have done) and then the book continue more or less as written. By letting her make the attempt, their sides become “even”. By her not trusting him enough to make the attempt, she (to me) becomes the bad-guy.

**

Incidentally, I don’t think it’s been much longer than a year since they split up, as the story currently stands. He left before Cawti’s pregnancy was showing, and I got the definite impression that the kid is still an infant, although I don’t think there’s been any specific mention of how old the tyke is.

** I got the feeling the kid was a toddler.

**

BTW, I’m enjoying the heck out of this debate, too. If you want, you can even disagree with me a little disrespectfully. **

Ok, then piss off, you wanker!

Fenris

[dorkusmalorkusmafia]

Ok, I finally finished reading the book completely last night. It had its moments but I couldn’t fogive Cawti for sneaking around without telling Vlad. I thought the resolution at the end was pretty weak where Spoiler She comes back to Vlad’s apartment but they make no specific plans.*/spoiler

Not only was Cawti incredibly arrogant but Vlad became the creepy stalker type with all of his sneaking and following her around. It made it so I didn’t want to side with him either. I wouldn’t want some guy to follow me around and watch me from various hiding places.

You guys say the stories get better from here? I believe in that possibility but the point of view of the story made me not really want to read anymore of him for a while. When I do eventually get around to it, which should be my next book?