Stick a fork in her: Clinton's done

[ShadowFacts]

@Carol Stream

As it stands, Diogenes’ claim about the provenance of Obama’s liberal rating is false.

I believe you are mistaken. The National Review’s ratings labeled Obama “the most liberal senator” and labeled Hillary Clinton as 16th. Cite. In one of your posts above (#302), you claimed a liberal group as the source of these ratings. **Diogenes **correctly identified the National Journal as the source, and you called his claim false.

Your cite for Obama’s rating went to an Examiner story that incorrectly identified the group that was doing the ratings as “Americans for Democratic Reform” when in fact the group is actually “Americans for Democratic Action.” That group gave Obama a 95%, which is not as liberal as some other senators who received 100%. By definition then, that group did NOT rate Obama the “most liberal” senator. (FTR, Clinton also received a 95% in their report).

So, in sum, you are wrong. I look forward to your gracious retraction.

[Carol_Stream]

@ShadowFacts

The National Review’s ratings labeled Obama “the most liberal senator” and labeled Hillary Clinton as 16th. Cite. In one of your posts above (#302), you claimed a liberal group as the source of these ratings. **Diogenes **correctly identified the National Journal as the source, and you called his claim false.

The National Review, or the National Journal? Which is it?

I await your gracious retraction.

[yojimbo]

Are we the PJF or the PFJ???

[ShadowFacts]

@Carol Stream

The National Review, or the National Journal? Which is it?

I await your gracious retraction.

And you shall receive it: My mistake on the “Review” - it is in fact the National Journal, as my cite correctly linked to. I am sure once you follow that link and realize your mistake, you will apologize to **Diogenes **for calling his claims false.

[Carol_Stream]

@ShadowFacts

And you shall receive it: It is in fact the National Journal, as my cite linked to.

I was wrong, you were wrong, and Dio was wrong. One of us won’t own up to it. What does that say?

[Shayna]

@yojimbo

Are we the PJF or the PFJ???

No, no, no, we’re the PB&J!

[yojimbo]

It tells me that more than one of ye think that by winning a battle of semantics you win the debate. What ye are talking about has little to do with the debate and a lot to do with ego.

[yojimbo]

@Shayna

No, no, no, we’re the PB&J!

Splitters. Tasty splitters but splitters non the less.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Carol Stream

I was wrong, you were wrong, and Dio was wrong. One of us won’t own up to it. What does that say?

I wasn’t wrong about anything.

[Spiny_Norman]

From your post, Carol:

@Carol Stream

I suppose, but how do you explain his rating as the most Liberal Senator?

Hillary’s only 16th, fwiw.

That rating - 1st and 16th for Obama and Clinton, respectively - is not from any “liberal group” - it is right out of the National Journal. Cites have been provided, but just in case: The National Journal’s webpage describing their ranking. In their own words:

a computer-assisted analysis that used 99 key Senate votes, selected by NJ reporters and editors, to place every senator on a liberal-to-conservative scale in each of three issue categories.

So it’s pretty bad form to post:

So you’re not going to address the falsity of your claim that Obama’s liberal rating was determined by a conservative magazine?

DtC was 100% correct.

Why you decided to bring in “Americans for Democratic Reform (sic)” is anyone’s guess, because they (or, rather, the group your cites actually tried to refer to) rated Obama & Clinton exactly alike for both 2006 & 2007. (And not as most liberal, either year, incidentally. For 2007, at least 53 members of Congress were considered more liberal.)

I’ll confess to not awaiting a graceful retraction, though.

[Spiny_Norman]

@yojimbo

It tells me that more than one of ye think that by winning a battle of semantics you win the debate. What ye are talking about has little to do with the debate and a lot to do with ego.

I know you’ve been on the Straight Dope for many, many years, and yet you manage to sound surprised?

(How’re things across the Pond, btw?)

[yojimbo]

@Spiny Norman

I know you’ve been on the Straight Dope for many, many years, and yet you manage to sound surprised?

(How’re things across the Pond, btw?)

Not surprised in the slightest just a tad vexed.

Grand over here. Meeting up with Coldie at the end of the month. Good to see you nailing it above as usual

[tnetennba]

Spiny Norman may be the best user name I’ve seen. As a hamster, I feel a kinship with hedgehogs. Even imaginary ones.

[Carol_Stream]

@Spiny Norman

That rating - 1st and 16th for Obama and Clinton, respectively - is not from any “liberal group” - it is right out of the National Journal.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but after a perfunctory look at their website, I don’t see anything that suggests the National Journal is a “right wing conservative magazine”.

[Carol_Stream]

@Diogenes the Cynic

I wasn’t wrong about anything.

Of course not. :rolleyes:

[Shayna]

Gallup Poll daily tracking. Three-day rolling average. N=approx. 1,200 Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.

Preference for Democratic Nominee:

Survey end date		Clinton 	Obama 		 
	                   % 	          % 	

2/15/08                   42              49

[tomndebb]

@Shayna

You’re a hopeless cause.

@Shayna

Now I’m convinced you must be on some kind of drugs or something.

Take these sentiments to the Pit. They do not belong in GD.

(BTW, you might want to check who you are when you sign on. It seems at least possible that you have submitted several posts under your spouse’s ID, recently.)

[ /Moderating ]

[tomndebb]

@ElvisL1ves

Why? If you insist on spouting nonsense and outright falsehoods here, you should *expect * to get called on it.

You are not to accuse other posters of “spouting. . . falsehoods” in GD.

[ /Moderating ]

[Spiny_Norman]

@tomndebb

(BTW, you might want to check who you are when you sign on. It seems at least possible that you have submitted several posts under your spouse’s ID, recently.)

Nah, it’s me alright. This turned interesting.

[Shayna]

@tomndebb

Take these sentiments to the Pit. They do not belong in GD.

Yeah, sorry, he tested my patience today.

(BTW, you might want to check who you are when you sign on. It seems at least possible that you have submitted several posts under your spouse’s ID, recently.)

In all seriousness, why would you think I would do something like that? On the very rare occasion I’ve accidentally posted while my husband was logged in, I’ve noticed it immediately and come back and posted a correction, acknowledging it was me who posted. Why would you accuse me of making as many as a half a dozen posts as someone else?