Stick a fork in her: Clinton's done

[Santo_Rugger]

[QUOTE=RedFury]
The Hillary hits the fan – video.

Reminiscent of Dean’s self-inflicted deathly holler I must say.
[/QUOTE]

Does she even think about things before she says them? “My plan forces people to buy insurance, even if they can’t afford it.” If they can’t afford it, how are they going to buy it? “That does not give you the right to attack me, Barack Obama…”, yet it’s okay for her to lob a lame attack about plagiarisms? And she’s still harping about how much better his speeches are than hers, not to mention that people actually get excited at his rallies. Why, Hillary, why?

[ShadowFacts]

[QUOTE=RedFury]
The Hillary hits the fan – video.

Reminiscent of Dean’s self-inflicted deathly holler I must say.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know about that - it seems like a smart play to me. Every time she went negative, she got criticized and creamed in the polls, so why not turn that around on your opponent and accuse him of going negative. She didn’t seem out of control or shrill or anything to me. (Sadly, I’d be happy to have her melt down in Ohio).

[Shayna]

[QUOTE=RedFury]

Oh, and for the record, you might want to read this article after viewing the spew – that’s if you’re able to sit through the whole thing.

Going Negative: Audacity of attacks

And she has the yarbles to pull this shit now? Cripes, talk about desperate times…
[/QUOTE]
And watch both videos made by Lorna Brett Howard, former President of Chicago NOW, referred to in that linked article, calling Hillary out for her lies in her mailer to Iowa and New Hampshire, and declaring that as her reason for dropping her support for Hillary and turning it to Obama.

Clinton’s got some nerve, I tell ya.

[Happy_Lendervedder]

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
I don’t know about that - it seems like a smart play to me. Every time she went negative, she got criticized and creamed in the polls, so why not turn that around on your opponent and accuse him of going negative. She didn’t seem out of control or shrill or anything to me. (Sadly, I’d be happy to have her melt down in Ohio).
[/QUOTE]

Shit this is as negative as she’s ever gotten, as far as I’m concerned. She accused him of being a Republican!

[Digital_Stimulus]

[QUOTE=RedFury]
The Hillary hits the fan – video.

Reminiscent of Dean’s self-inflicted deathly holler I must say.
[/QUOTE]

Huh. She didn’t seem out of control to me; at worst, perhaps manufacturing a bit of incongruous outrage. Is it justified? I don’t know (see below), but I don’t think she’s in a position to criticize tactics, in a “pot-meet-kettle” sense.

It wasn’t clear to me what the fliers actually said…can anyone help me out here? Obviously, as Obama has stated, he disagrees with some aspects of her health care plan. Does the flier, as she claims, qualify as an “attack”? (Note that there’s a distinction, of course, between an “attack” and a “policy difference”.) And I’m not sure what to make of the NAFTA thing…

[TWDuke]

[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
Does she even think about things before she says them? “My plan forces people to buy insurance, even if they can’t afford it.” If they can’t afford it, how are they going to buy it?
[/QUOTE]
You seem to have missed a few key words there. Let me help you out.
[QUOTE=Hillary Clinton]
Senator Obama knows that it is not true that my plan forces people to buy insurance, even if they can’t afford it.
[/QUOTE]
Criticism of Hillary for negative campaigning is old news. Obama by contrast has gotten a lot of praise for keeping his campaign positive. It’s fair to point out where the reality is different than the image.

[Jophiel]

[QUOTE=Digital Stimulus]
Huh. She didn’t seem out of control to me; at worst, perhaps manufacturing a bit of incongruous outrage.
[/QUOTE]
Clinton has known about that health care mailer for two weeks now. Her acting shocked about it today seems more than slightly disingenuous.

I’m pretty sure the NAFTA mailer is just as old but don’t quote me.

[Harborwolf]

[QUOTE=Digital Stimulus]
It wasn’t clear to me what the fliers actually said…can anyone help me out here? Obviously, as Obama has stated, he disagrees with some aspects of her health care plan. Does the flier, as she claims, qualify as an “attack”? (Note that there’s a distinction, of course, between an “attack” and a “policy difference”.) And I’m not sure what to make of the NAFTA thing…
[/QUOTE]
Here’s a link to an article. As an added bonus, here are some relevant quotes.

The Obama flier falsely stated Clinton’s current plan would force consumers to pay a penalty if they failed to buy health insurance. To date, Clinton has dodged the issue and never actually said what the penalty would be.

But Clinton lashed out at Obama: “Since when do Democrats attack one another on universal health care?” she asked rhetorically.

Clinton of course has been attacking Obama on the subject of health care for months, on the stump, during debates, on TV and in fliers, some of which also have been misleading.

But wait! There’s more!

Clinton appeared frustrated – if not furious – about two Obama campaign fliers; one on universal health care and one that misleadingly suggested she called NAFTA a “boon” to the economy, something she never said, though she has praised NAFTA in the past…

His (Obama’s)fliers, he said “are accurate. Sen. Clinton, as part of the Clinton administration, supported NAFTA. In her book she called it one of the ‘administration’s successes.’”

Now how much would you pay for cites of this quality?

All infomerciality aside, of course this is a tactic on Hillary’s part. Accusing Obama of going dirty is a great idea. Whether or not it’s hypocritical of her to do so? YMMV.

[stolichnaya]

I think, given evidence that has arisen about Clinton’s insulation from the day-to-day workings of her campaign, that it’s not implausible that this is the first time she has seen these fliers. Or even that she may not know about her own.

I don’t know. If it is a tactic, it seems to bank on people paying enough attention to hear her do one thing, but not another. Perhaps the reason for the incindiary phrase “Shame on you”, it begs headlines.

[stolichnaya]

Oh, whoops. It’s a talking point. OK, let’s see how it goes…

During her next speech, at a high school in Huber Heights, Ohio, Clinton again blistered Obama over the mailings. Holding them up, she asked the crowd of more than 1,000 people how many had received them. Many in the crowd reacted with puzzlement and relatively few people raised their hands.

[kaylasdad99]

Guess we better all send Obama some more money so he can get those fliers out to the rest of the people…

[Digital_Stimulus]

[QUOTE=Harborwolf]
Here’s a link to an article.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Given that, I’m not seeing any reason for any outrage (beyond political theatrics). Rather, I put the health care item in the “policy difference” class. However, without seeing the actual flier, I can’t make a better judgment. But for it to rise to a tactic “out of the Karl Rove playbook” would require it to be pretty fucking outrageous, which I sincerely doubt.

And I had forgotten that NAFTA was, of course, enacted during Bill’s presidency. Not that that necessarily means she supports it, but I don’t recall any strong reaction from her one way or the other (which may be entirely my faulty recollection).

[JohnnieEnigma]

wow. 15 pages in this thread… and yeah, she’s basically done. I have a feeling the thread will go on for another 15 pages before she acknowledges her “doneness” though.

Yeah, I just made up that word.

[kaylasdad99]

Which word, “doneness”? Just now? How did you get it into all of the cookbooks then, with a time machine?

Can I borrow it?

[Phlosphr]

{{{BIG SIGH}}}

Campaigns get ugly towards the end. We know who is coming closest to ending their’s now.

[Frank]

[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
Which word, “doneness”? Just now? How did you get it into all of the cookbooks then, with a time machine?
[/QUOTE]

So, she’s not done until you can insert a toothpick in her and it comes out clean and dry?

[ElvisL1ves]

Not the best mental image you could give us there, Frank.

[Frank]

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
Not the best mental image you could give us there, Frank.
[/QUOTE]

My work here is done.

[Shayna]

[QUOTE=Digital Stimulus]

without seeing the actual flier, I can’t make a better judgment.
[/QUOTE]
PDF Files: NAFTA flier*, Health Care flier.

*Obama acknowledged in his press conference today that the original article they used as a source for the word “boon” was not corrected to indicate that that was their interpretation and not a direct quote from Hillary, until after the mailers were already distributed.

[Santo_Rugger]

[QUOTE=TWDuke]
You seem to have missed a few key words there. Let me help you out.Criticism of Hillary for negative campaigning is old news. Obama by contrast has gotten a lot of praise for keeping his campaign positive. It’s fair to point out where the reality is different than the image.
[/QUOTE]

Whoah, thanks! I listened to that three times before I posted, and kept thinking there was a period instead of a “that”.

[QUOTE=Frank]
So, she’s not done until you can insert a toothpick in her and it comes out clean and dry?
[/QUOTE]

Goodness, I don’t even want to think about this one for now. :eek: