Sticking To Your Principles Sucks Sometimes

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

[QUOTE=Alice The Goon]
My children and I become solid middle class, up from lower middle. If one day my true love decides he’s moving out, then- what? I’m in this solid-middle-class lifestyle with more bills than I have now, and with less income than I have right now. I were married, my attorney would be able to sort all that out for me and if I’m not, I could very well be SOL.
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Well, your child isn’t his. So, I don’t know that you would receive anything like child support.

And I know that it’s harder to get alimony than it used to be, though I don’t know how much harder.

I really don’t know that anyone continues their married standard of living after divorce. It’s not like just marrying someone middle class means you will be middle class no matter what happens.

I don’t object to you going by any set of principles you choose. It would just be a shame if you were making decisions based on incorrect information.

22

[QUOTE=Sunspace]
I thought it was simple: live alone = benefits for child. Live with boyfriend = fewer benefits for child. Get married = benefits continue. Boyfriend does not want to get married.

Am I misinterpreting?
[/QUOTE]

If I get married, benefits do not continue. Which would be fine, as our income combined would be plenty. And it’s not that boyfriend doesn’t want to get married- but that’s not what he asked me.

23

You know, even apart of the whole benefits thing, I don’t know that I’d feel any differently about living together. I just don’t believe that it’s for me. I don’t look down on others that cohabitate- they have their reasons just like I do, but I just don’t think that I’d feel secure enough. Even though a little (ok, big) part of me squeals with delight at the thought of having access to him 24/7, I just don’t want to live together outside of marriage. My dad tried to explain it to me in my early 20’s and I didn’t understand then, but I do now.

24

[QUOTE=Alice The Goon]
If I get married, benefits do not continue. Which would be fine, as our income combined would be plenty. And it’s not that boyfriend doesn’t want to get married- but that’s not what he asked me.
[/QUOTE]
Nothing is certain, but it sounds like you are doing the right thing for you then… waiting until marriage to live together.

Even if you and your boyfriend would have a much higher income together, but I’d still save as much money as you can during the marriage, and not immediately open out your lifestyle as wide as it will go, but that’s just me. :slight_smile:

:: rereads OP ::

Oh! You’d only been dating for three months! That puts a different feel to it.

Good luck.

25

Yeah, I didn’t pickup on the 3 month thing, that is a short time to really get to know someone. Give it some time, if it’s as real as you now believe, it will only get better. If it’s not, you’ll have avoided a lot of trouble and mess.

26

As a fellow non-cynic, I’d like to offer you congratulations, respect, and encouragement to stick to those principles, not just in a “You go ahead and do what you think is right” way, but also in an “It seems to me you’re doing the right thing” way. I believe in love and in marriage and in moving in together when you get married, not before, though to explain why would probably be more appropriate for a different, more impersonal, thread. I just hope that you and your children will eventually become the guy’s family, not his houseguests.

27

Some of you don’t seem to be understanding. If she moves in with him, she loses the benefits. This is ok if they’re married, because that shows a stronger commitment than just living together and they are more likely to try to work things out rather than going their own seperate ways after a big fight or something.

Normally I would roll my eyes and call you old fashioned, but you’re doing exactly the right thing in your particular situation, Alice. Stick to your guns.

28

I think you are taking a lot of factors into consideration, Alice, and trying to come up with a solution that is right for you and your child (you have said children more than once, but mentioned only one child - do you have more than one child, or are you referring to possible potential children?). I would have had no problem living with my husband for as long as we wanted to be together, but we wanted to get married, because it IS a big deal (there are always those who say it isn’t, but in my opinion, they are wrong - it is a big deal, and it does mean something - why else are homosexual people fighting so hard to get it?). We moved in together when an opportunity came up, but we were already engaged at that point, and there was no doubt for either of us that we had already made a lifetime commitment, and were going to go all the way and make it an official, legal one, too.

There is nothing wrong with you wanting the full commitment of marriage (which it still is, even if a whole lot of people don’t treat it that way). Good for you for sticking to what you want for yourself and your child. If you want to be married, you want to be married; nuff said.

In talking to your boyfriend, have you mentioned how delighted you are at the idea of living with him, as well as the reasons you choose not to at this point, so he knows that you’re not rejecting him? And don’t wait too long for him, either - if you want to be married, you need to be with someone who also wants to be married. It’s a lot like the kids or religion issue - if you aren’t on the same page, you probably never will be. Three months may be too early to make that decision, but after a year or so, he really should know if he wants to commit to you or not.

29

Dang it, I had even more opinions that came out after I posted.

Don’t be expecting being married to be a fix-all solution, though. If your boyfriend isn’t committed to you and your child the way you want him to be, a marriage ceremony won’t change that. Being married won’t mean that you will never get divorced, or that your husband will always be a good provider or a good husband; you don’t give up all responsibility to make your life what you want it to be after you get married. There really are no guarantees with marriage.

30

Also, you’ve been dating for three months and seeing each other on average three times a week. Give it some more time and after a year or so, then think about moving in.

31

I agree with you that moving in together is probably not a good idea in your situation. In addition to the financial aspect, I think it’s probably better for your kids to wait until your boyfriend’s ready to make a total commitment rather than uprooting them for a relationship that may not be able to withstand the test of time. I’m sure it’s hard for kids to adjust to living with a new step-parent figure, so I would want to wait until I sure the guy was in it for keeps to put the kids through that. Hopefully, if this man is the right guy for you, he can understand that.

32

You’re ready to marry a guy after three months but you don’t trust him eneough to move in with him? Something about that doesn’t compute.

Sometimes “principles” are irrational. Living with someone for a while is the best way to find out how compatible you really are. I don’t know why anybody is willing to marry someone they’ve never lived with. It definitely doesn’t hurt anything. I lived with my wife for several years before we got married. I recommend it.

If you trust this guy, you shouldn’t have a problem moving in with him. If it’s some kind of a 'moral" hangup, then that’s not something I can relate to except to vaguely resent the implication that people like me are immoral. How can living with someone you love be immoral?

33

In an interesting turn of events, the conversation about living together seems to have brought about a little freak-out for him. Right now we are “taking a break” so that he can “think about things” and is not comfortable with me wanting to “move so fast” in the relationship. :rolleyes: He was the one to mention living together, and I don’t even want to. I think his own thoughts about wanting to live with me may have freaked him out a little.

I’m pretty much in love with him at this point, so I will wait patiently for a while for him to gather his thoughts, but it sucks. If he decides to come back, great, but if he doesn’t, I won’t die. I guess.

34

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
You’re ready to marry a guy after three months but you don’t trust him eneough to move in with him? Something about that doesn’t compute.

Sometimes “principles” are irrational. Living with someone for a while is the best way to find out how compatible you really are. I don’t know why anybody is willing to marry someone they’ve never lived with. It definitely doesn’t hurt anything. I lived with my wife for several years before we got married. I recommend it.

If you trust this guy, you shouldn’t have a problem moving in with him. If it’s some kind of a 'moral" hangup, then that’s not something I can relate to except to vaguely resent the implication that people like me are immoral. How can living with someone you love be immoral?
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It’s not really a moral thing- it’s more that I see living together as more of a liability than an asset. When I live with someone, I have all the responsibilities of being married, yet I enjoy none of the benefits. I’m not willing to put myself in that position- it’s not secure for me and my children.

As for living together to determine compatibility- I believe that dating for an appropriate amount of time and maybe even pre-marital counseling would be sufficient for me. What am I going to find out about him while living together that I couldn’t find out while dating? My comment about being able to marry him tomorrow was perhaps more me waxing rhapsodic about him than it was grounded in reality. I’d want to date for at least another year.

35

[QUOTE=Alice The Goon]
In an interesting turn of events, the conversation about living together seems to have brought about a little freak-out for him. Right now we are “taking a break” so that he can “think about things” and is not comfortable with me wanting to “move so fast” in the relationship. :rolleyes: He was the one to mention living together, and I don’t even want to. I think his own thoughts about wanting to live with me may have freaked him out a little.
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I almost warned about this in my first post. I don’t think it’s the idea of living with you that freaked him out. It was (what he perceived) as your seeming rush to get married. For guys, shacking up is seen as an intermediate move. It’s like, “Let’s try this for awhile and see how it goes.” When the woman says “not before marriage,” the guy hears “MARRY ME NOW!” That may not have been your intention but I promise you that what guys hear. He might have been ready for a trial cohabitation but I think you might have spooked him if he got the impression (even if it was mistaken) that you were giving him an ultimatum.

36

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I almost warned about this in my first post. I don’t think it’s the idea of living with you that freaked him out. It was (what he perceived) as your seeming rush to get married. For guys, shacking up is seen as an intermediate move. It’s like, “Let’s try this for awhile and see how it goes.” When the woman says “not before marriage,” the guy hears “MARRY ME NOW!” That may not have been your intention but I promise you that what guys hear. He might have been ready for a trial cohabitation but I think you might have spooked him if he got the impression (even if it was mistaken) that you were giving him an ultimatum.
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Ah. A rare glimpse into the male mind- cool! You could be absolutely right. The last time we spoke, I did reassure him that I’d want to date for at least another year, and that did seem to please him.

Thanks!

37

I understand that having kids makes things more complicated. I disagree that you can really learn everything from dating and pre-marital counselling that you can from sharing a bed and a bathroom and a kitchen. It’s as much about learning what you don’t like about the other person as much about what you do. Things which are minor annoyances when dating become amplified when living together. You have to learn whether you can handle each other when you’re both at your worst.

Still, I get that it’s not just you, it’s your kids as well and you have to be careful. Maybe when he comes back you can suggest a vacation with just the two of you. Spend some time in a hotel room or something. You have to find out whether you will drive each other crazy or not.

38

Diogenes, the more I think about it, the more I am so grateful to you for explaining what he was on about to me. I could NOT understand why he would think I was moving too fast when he was the one that brought up living together. That was so puzzling to me.
I may go ahead and plan a vacation for a couple of months away- that sounds good whether we’re researching compatibility or not.

39

[QUOTE=Alice The Goon]
I What am I going to find out about him while living together that I couldn’t find out while dating?
[/QUOTE]

Oh good lord where should I start? With my aunt, who dated my uncle for a couple years, married him, and then found out he was alcoholic? Or maybe two friends of mine who are long past 50, dated for 18 months, and only after they moved in together did she find out that he, too, is an alcoholic? With people who have dated only a short while before marriage to find out they married gamblers, addicts, abusers, or worse?

I caution you that three months is not and never will be enough to know someone well enough to marry him. People with deep and serious flaws can hide them (especially in a ‘dating’ relationship when you’re only seeing him a few times a week) for months.

I have been on a peer relationship counselling board for quite a while and have seen this far too many times. The curve in a relationship hits its high within the first few months. People seem to be hooked somewhere around the three-month mark and I believe that coincides with the oxytocin effect. The high will last anywhere from six to nine months more (longer if you’re only dating) while the reality of the person starts to sink in and, in the case of people with serious flaws, the cracks start to show. By the end of a year, you’ll begin to really know him if you’re dating. If you’ve been unwise enough to move in sooner, between six and nine months will be when you see who the person really is.

Unfortunately, most people fall for the person they see during the first few months and, when the problems emerge, keep harking back to ‘how it was in the beginning’ and think that if things only got back to those glowy early days, life would be perfect.

Neither of you really knows each other now. Don’t move in until you’ve been dating six to nine months and then live together for a year to ensure you are actually suited to live together before you marry.

If there’s no major flaws, then no harm, no foul if you wait. OTOH, you may regret it very much if you get into this too soon only to find you’ve got yourself a lemon.