Straight Dope about State Farm and Traffic Tickets

Factual Questions
1

Last week I ended up with my first ticket in nearly 15 years - I went through an intersection as the light changed from yellow to red, and a cop pulled me over. OK, that’s fine, I deserve that, and I freely admitted it to the cop. No problemo.

But what is really odd and somewhat scary is that no one at State Farm Insurance will tell me how much my rates will go up.

Doing my typical bit of over-research, last week I called in succession TWELVE agents in my city, telling them I was an existing driver, no tickets and accidents for nearly 15 years, and had a single red light ticket. I asked “How much will my rates go up?”

I of course received TWELVE different responses, ranging from the positive (“No, no one cares unless it’s 3 moving violations in a year”) to the negative (“Oh yes, they will DEFINITELY go up, and you could be kicked off”) to the bizarre (“Well, the company will have to petition the State to raise your specific rates over this ticket, and a judge will have to rule on whether or not we can”) to the non-answers (“We cannot tell you ANYTHING about our policies unless you give us your full name, policy number, Social Security Number, and a daytime, cell phone, and nighttime phone number”).

To the net effect that I can draw one of two conclusions:

  1. No State Farm agent actually knows (which is pretty damn scary)
  2. They do know but refuse to tell you (equally scary)

Online searches have proved fruitless for the Straight Dope, except for coming across scads of reports of people who allege they had a single ticket and their rates went up by “thousands of dollars”. The State Farm website has been completely unhelpful, and calling the main corporate office gets people who categorically refuse to answer any and all questions, saying my agent must answer them. See above for how well that works. The main office is apparently unconcerned that I got twelve different and conflicting responses. I asked the main office if they could just tell me which one was the right one, and they refused to tell me.

I know this may be State-specific (I’m in Kansas), but surely there is something in writing which states the policy for a single violation like this.

I also referred the agents to the alphanumeric “cost code” that they say determines my rates, and which comes with my policy each 6 months. There is nothing in that cost code I saw that references tickets, only accidents. When I asked them how they could raise my rates when it wasn’t in the cost code, they said in essence, twelve different answers that I won’t bother repeating due to their conflicting inanity.

I don’t think I’ve experienced talking to such a set of non-answering and conflicting-answering professional people in one day.

So…any State Farm agents or people with experience out there that can cut through the BS and point me to some hard, written fact on this?

2

Er, does your state not allow traffic school or some other way to keep the occaisonal ticket dismissed?

3

As a footnote: In some states, what you did may have been perfectly legal. In others, it’s illegal. In most, the regulations are vaguely defined enough to leave the issue to the prerogative/judgment of the observing cop. That said, I would double check the state’s code, even if you’ve already paid the ticket.

A friend from Maryland sent me the policy from her city, which essentially says: If you enter the intersection when the light is red, you have run a red light. By contrast, if you break the plane of the intersection (IOW, if you even begin to enter the intersection) and the light is yellow, but turns to red while you’re still in the intersection, then you have not run a red light.

4

I suspect that this is dependent on the state in which you are a licensed driver.

In dear old Massachusetts, we have an Insurance Commissioner. If you have the same, you may be able to get a clearer answer from them.

In my case, I had a speeding ticket several years ago. Same deal, guilty as charged, I’ll pay the fine I thought. Until I called my insurance agent…

Their story to me: The first ticket is a freebie (insurance wise). I had had an earlier ticket 20 years earlier, but no statute of limitations applied, my entire driving career was under investigation.

So, as a repeat offender I was subject to a $200 insurance surcharge (plus revocation of my good driver credits). And, this surcharge would be applied for the next 5 years, for a grand total of $1200.

Needless to say, I appealed the ticket. I was heard by a clerk who took pity on me for some reason, and I’ve been a very good boy since then :slight_smile:

5

I don’t know, but that’s not what I’m asking. As far as the resolution of the issue, if it’s going to raise my rates, I can 100% legally have my lawyer contest it down to a non-moving violation by an established policy where I pay treble the ticket price to the City, plus court costs, plus legal fees. As much as that is (about $500-$600), it’s often much less than the insurance increase.

Carnac - by the legal definitions I can find, I did run the light.

6

It seems like there should be an easy answer to your very basic question. But there really isn’t. The answer does indeed lie with your agent, or more specifically the underwriting team that services your agent’s policies.

See, depending on a number of factors such as how long you’ve been insured with a particular insurance carrier, what your accident history is, etc. State Farm may never officially even know about this ticket.

Why? Well Motor Vehicle Reports (MVRs) cost money. State Farm has about a bazillion (rough estimate) cars insured–between 20-25% of all US private passenger vehicles. If you do the math, that means they’d have to spend TONS of money checking every driver every 6-12 months or so. Not just the cost of the MVRs, but also the salaries of the people who’d review them and make decisions about what to do to you. Those people are well-paid professionals taking in between $25-70k per year. See where I’m going with this? It’s not cost effective to check everybody.

MVRs are run as a matter of routine. There are certain classes of driver who get their MVRs checked quite frequently and others who might come up in a random sample. Depending on a number off things you might be in one or the other category.

Now. While it’s true the agent’s job includes marketing and QUOTING insurance premiums, this function is primarily limited to new business. If you roll into an agency and get a quote for your current driving record, the number may very well be different from what an existing customer with identical driving history is paying. This will be due to discounts and experience rates that the existin customer has earned over time. Basically, the insurance company knows the existing customer and has a pretty good idea what to expect in the way of losses. New business? Not so much.

So, how will your traffic ticket affect you? Maybe not at all–if you’re not “under the microscope” as an above-average risk driver, your MVR may not be pulled for years. If ever. If the underwriting department does get a look at it, they may make a decision varying from, “Meh…Una’s been insured with for a bunch of years, has an otherwise clear history with no accidents, looks like he blinked one day. Who cares” to “Holy mother of God we just insured this guy last month and he’s running red lights! nonrenew NONRENEW!”

Things that are important: how long have you been with State Farm? What’s your driving record like? Any accidents (comprehensive losses like theft, windshields and running into animals don’t count)? How old are you? From your post I’d say you’re probably over 30 and have a clear history. Unless there’s something else I don’t know about you I’d say the effect will be between nothing and a pittance.

Of course: I am not licensed to sell or quote automobile insurance in any state, all answers given in this post should not be construed as official State Farm policy and actual premiums must be determined by an underwriting review of your complete driving propfile, etc. etc. etc.

7

It’s relevant to what your asking though, because in many jurisdictions taking traffic school or something along those lines will keep the ticket off of your record, which means it won’t affect your insurance at all.

You may want to find out.

8

Still may not amount to much. Colorado routinely hands out moving violations worth like 4 points against your license, but will reduce it to a “defective vehicle” ticket with only 2 points if you just plead guilty and pay the fine. Insurance companies know that “defective vehicle” means “reduced moving violation” and treat it as a moving violation for underwriting purposes unless you can prove you really did get a ticket for having a burned out taillight.

And it’s alright to do that because it really doesn’t matter what the government wants to call it, if you’re running red lights or getting caught speeding then you are at greater risk of an accident.

9

just reread Metacom’s post. If the ticket can be entirely erased from the MVR, then yeah, go for it.

10

Also, and I don’t know how Colorado does it, but in Chicago if you show up for court, the judge will usually offer all first-time-in-recent-history offenders the option of pleading guilty, paying the fine and getting supervision. By this, the ticket does not go on your driving record unless you get another moving violation within 6 months–in that case, both your tickets go on.

I’ve gotten about 6 or 7 moving violations in my life, but not one has ever affected my driving record or insurance rates because the traffic school and supervisory options have kept them off. You should check to see what Colorado’s policies on this are. Just up and paying the ticket is not usually the cheapest way to handle these things.

11

I have State Farm, & got a ticket for a rolling stop at an intersection, signs only.

Didn’t raise my rates a bit.

12

I can top that.

My grandfather, aged 75ish at the time, went to a local agent of a major insurance carrier based in Springfield, IL to inquire about their rates. Gramps had gotten a ticket when he was 18, 57 years earlier, no tickets or accidents since then. They wouldn’t insure him! :eek:

13

The real reason was his age. But that’s illegal, so the dredged up the ticket.

Have him write to the State Insurance Commission, & complain about age discrimination.

14

Last year was a fluke; I got three moving violations (two minor speeding violations, and a right on red at a signal with a very poorly marked “NO RIGHT TURN ON RED”) sign.

I’ve been with State Farm for as long as I’ve owned cars; some 18 years now. I’m happy with their customer service and claims adjustment, so I stay a loyal customer.

My car insurance premium has not gone up one cent.

15

The result will be state specific. Each state has different rules under which insurance companies can underwrite insurance policies. Kansas will be different from Colorado, will be different from California, etc.

You might want to try this experiment. Log onto the State Farm web site. See if you can massage a quote out of their website, using all the information you have about yourself, including the “fact” you have one moving violation in the relevant time period. See what quote shows up.

16

I have State Farm Insurance.

When I received my first speeding ticket, I thought for sure my rates were going to go up. I especially thought so when I received my second speeding ticket two hours later.

Lessee…since then…running a stop sign, right turn in a prohibited area (cutting off a cop at the same time), various and sundry other speeding tickets…

The only time my rates have ever gone up was after making a claim.

As previous posts have noted, insurance companies can’t check the records of every driver they insure.

It’s amazing how corporations and governments use fear to control people…

17

I would never call to find out.

Why wave the red flag to those soul sucking people.

When the collective Ujest Family smashed two cars in one fun filled summer ( one totalled. The other nearly totalled.) our rates not only did not go up, but we got a (form) letter saying what valued clients we were. (We pretty much were sure that the letter was informing us we were SOL.) and both tickets were ixnayed as the police officer never showed for the appearance. [size=1]It also helps to have a court date around the time the World Trade Center was still smoking and the country was in a tizzy.) [s/zie]

So, FWIW, I love AAA.
YMMV.

18

Ummmm… if I understand, your MVR file is maintained by a 3rd-party data warehousing/reselling information, perhaps a credit reporting agency. It meets the definition of a credit report unless someone wants to contradict me on this.
As such, negative information should be off of the report months before the 8th birthday of this ticket.
I’m confused about how grampa’s ticket showed up in the company’s files at all unless they pulled his MVR back in the 1950s and kept it in their “private” non-credit-reporting-agency MVR records.