One question:
Is it misquoting when I tell clearly:
If it is, I am very sorry.
I will be next time much more careful, not to do that.
Henry
I understand what he’s saying perfectly well, it may take a re-read or two but the “sense” is there. I’ve seen people misinterpret the clearest posts on this board, quite regularly. You think he might be anti-semitic? I think he may in fact be Jewish. I interpret his post to mean that for some reason people aren’t as outraged about seeing the “n” word in the context that it was written and that they would be more outraged if the word “Jew” was used.
HenryB is mistaken or naieve though to think this board is about free speech, because it isn’t, though some have more free speech than others depending on how clever they are and who their “friends” are.
El_Kabong
Maybe I do not understand so much of Your lingua,
But I do understand Your heritage.
Do You?
If You do, how will You hand it over to Your next generation?
Henry
{b]Jackmanii** Ther is no way to post to You. Post me first and I will answer,.
See, I thought he was black and felt that Jews were getting “special protection” on the boards that black weren’t. Except that it seems to be somewhat long odds that a Swede/Finn living in Russia would also be black, but anything’s possible. But, like I said, I have only the most tenuous comprehension of what he’s talking about, because his grasp of the language is so poor.
I also disagree with you on the SDMB clique thing, but that’s a hijack for another day.
And as a Jew, I say that [b}Scylla** piece, thus modified, is still intelligent, articulate and thought-provoking.
Not everyone can be pigeonholed into a niche. A dear friend, one who got up at 2:00 am during a snowstorm on a work night to be with me when I got the news that a close family member had died (he insisted that I call when I got the news) used the term “jew down” (as in “That bastard jewed me down”) and still uses it (as far as I know) when I’m not around. The only reason he doesn’t use it around me is that he knows it pisses me off…but deep down, he doesn’t get it.
And yet: a few years back when I was in a finanacial crunch, he loaned me money telling me “pay it back when you can”.
So is he a bigot?
For thinking individuals, the answer isn’t as easy as morons who spew “All of us are bigots”-type comments would like us to think.
I completely understand how Scylla is conflicted (to use an annoying term) about his grandfather.
Things aren’t always easily pigeonholed.
Fenris
And by the way, asshole, “Jew” is not a swear word. Your “Jew-word” comment was far more offensive than anything Sylla wrote.
Henry B:
I am the original writer. You ask me what I think. Ok. I would rather you not alter my entire post. I would ask that you ask a moderator to edit your original post so that you are not reposting my post with an altered word in it’s entirety.
I beleive that you intended no offense, so we have no problem other than a simple mistake which you can easily correct, if you see fit to do so.
As for Sparticus being banned, that appears to be what he explicitly wanted so that’s all that needs to be said.
Ok?
Fenris wrote:
“And by the way, asshole, “Jew” is not a swear word. Your “Jew-word” comment was far more offensive than anything Sylla wrote.”
I do not know how to address people.
If “Finn” is apropriate, i do not know. Never heard it would be appropriate.
If “Jew” is apprpriate, how should I address him/her?
Or is the race/belief a taboo?
I can explain my god (or God with a capital letter), it mayby differ from Yours, but i believe it is still the same (God).
I do not know if it is proper, but if You think I am a racist, bad human, anti-American, against freedom. against free speech, . against elections. just a moron, a Finnish moron, a f…wit, etc. You can just call me:]
+7-8172-24 30 16 and ask for Henry
I’ll be here.
Btw. Am I banned now?
Ok. Apparently we have an honest bit of linguistic confusion going on here, in which case I retract and apologize for the “asshole” comment.
The word “nigger” is one of the most offensive words in the US. It’s so offensive that it’s often refered to as “The N-word”. By using the term “The Jew-Word” it sounded to me like you were making a play on the term “the N-Word” implying that to be a Jew was offensive in the same way and to the same degree as the word “nigger” is. I’ve heard people use the term “Jew” as an attempted insult (“You damn Jew” or, more popularly “You damn Jew-bastard”, for example) and it seemed like you were making a similar comment with the “Jew-word” phrase.
Fenris
Scylla
Henry B:
I am the original writer. You ask me what I think. Ok. I would rather you not alter my entire post. I would ask that you ask a moderator to edit your original post so that you are not reposting my post with an altered word in it’s entirety.
Ok. No problem withh this, please alter the whole post… Just as Scylla say.
I beleive that you intended no offense, so we have no problem other than a simple mistake which you can easily correct, if you see fit to do so.
I have no intention to harm any people.
As for Sparticus being banned, that appears to be what he explicitly wanted so that’s all that needs to be said.
Ok?
Can You put a good word for him? I just ask.
Think. He is most probably a member of a community where we never lived. Did we live in Alabama? Did we live in Poland?
In Karelia?
If not, ok not. If yes, is our history a little bit different?
Are we ‘inflaminating’ like Henry?
So what is Your excuse?
Henry B -
It may be a good idea to e-mail Lynn Bodoni and be sure you are not about to be banned. My unsolicited and irrelevant opinion is that you have apologized, and Scylla is not mad, so I would think you are OK, but She Who Must Be Obeyed would have the final word, and we poor mortals can only grovel at her feet in snivelling pools of self-abasement, fearing her least frown.
FWIW, I think the Scylla OP loses something with ‘Jew’ instead of n****r. I don’t think ‘Jew’ has the same sting.
The point of Scylla’s OP was to show that someone who we would all agree was a racist, may still have had his good points. To be human is to be wrong, sometimes, and the use of the offensive word forces us who read to confront the same feelings of disgust against racism that Scylla felt when he came to consciousness, and then have the same ambiguity of feeling for the sick and failing old man, who acted to save someone he would have thoughtlessly insulted, at the risk of his own life.
It wouldn’t have been the same unless ‘Jew’ carried the same sting.
I am over-intellectualizing, as usual. Read Scylla’s OP again.
Regards.
Shodan
I couldn’t say for sure, but generally, when The Great And Terrible Lynn Bodoni tells somebody to e-mail her, she means “e-mail”. She doesn’t mean “…or post your reply in the thread, whichever is most convenient for you.”
BTW, if anybody’s interested, “analphabetic” is actually a word.
Ahh, how rarely Life rarely gives us these moments of such sublime irony…
It’s almost a religious experience, ya know?
Being a Jew is not taboo in any way. Jews aren’t a race, but often share an ethnic and cultural background, as well as a religious belief, of course. You are displaying total ignorance of all matters Jewish. This board is dedicated to education, but this is the wrong forum for teaching you about Judaism and Jewish culture. If you desire, I’d be happy to teach something you about Jewish culture and history. You can email me; address is in the profile.
You seem to be ashamed of your heritage as a Finnish Swede, and I’m sorry to hear that. But that doesn’t mean that Jews are similarly ashamed. You can call me a Jew, or Jewish. We aren’t weird exotic creatures, you know. There are derogatory words for Jew, but “Jew” itself isn’t one of them.
I don’t think you’re banned, and although I find your behavior mystifying and sometimes obnoxious and uninformed, I hope you aren’t banned. I think if you paid attention, you could learn something here, and certainly improve your English. If you’re not a troll, and you have a genuine desire to understand people better, you should be allowed to stick around. I do wish you would use the dictionary a little bit more; your posts do seem to lack a certain coherence.
Henry:
You are probably having trouble understanding my story because of translation problems. I don’t like racism, and I don’t think racism is good.
I only speak one language. I could not hope to communicate properly on a message board in a second language. I’m glad you’re making the effort, and admire you for it.
While you’re learning to communicate in a new language you are bound to have some problems understanding some of the subtleties of what is going on.
Sparticus is gone because he wants to be gone. Nobody made him. He asked to leave. There is no reason for me to put in a good word. I don’t have any power in this regard. I don’t enforce the rules here. And, if I did have the power I wouldn’t do it.
HenryB,
I defended You in a previous thread but I have to disagree with You in this one. Please try to understand what the patient people here are trying to explain. The only problem here is a slight comprehension problem on your part. Take your time, be polite, don’t be accusatory and we’ll be happy to help you along.
Haj
For what it’s worth, I’m one multilingual Jew who grew up in a racially very mixed and tolerant enviroment, with friends, neighbors, and classmates of all conceivable colors. I was offended neither by Scylla’s OP, nor by Henry’s reaction to it. I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding going on in this thread in several directions; some of it is due to linguistic differences, and some is due to cultural differences. Actually, **Scylla’s ** grandfather sounds a bit like my grandfather (and yes, it sure is possible to be a Jewish racist; not to speak ill of the dead, but the best description of my grandfather would probably be a Jewish Archie Bunker). That doesn’t mean he was an evil person; humans are highly complex creatures, and even if he reflected the social values of the era he was raised in, he still treated everyone with respect (even if he referred to them as “schvartzes” behind their backs when he thought they wouldn’t understand).
I don’t speak Finnish, but I do speak 2 other foreign langages fluently, and am sometimes mistaken for a native speaker. My knowledge of slang, however, to use a slang term, sucks. To me, slang is the hardest part of any language to master, especially in terms of using it as active vocabulary rather than just understanding more or less when someone else uses it. Hell, even the regional variations in slang between New York and Chicago throw me for a loop sometimes, and I’m a native English speaker. So if a non-native speaker doesn’t understand the fine differentiations of meaning and connotation between Jew, Hebrew, kike, Yid, or whatever, as long as the intent doesn’t appear to be insulting, I hope some of us can find it in our hearts to cut Henry some slack. The best way to improve active vocabulary in a foreign language is by using it.
So Scylla, hajario and I have come to the conclusion That we should fight the only fight there is;
The fight against rasism!
I am so happy about this… I maybe do not write so well, but You have understood my thoughts, so I will tell my grandchildren, (yes I am that old), about it! You are my friends in this fight!
Eva Luna knows a lot, listen to her. She has not the wisdom on her lips. She is the wisdom!
Anyhow, if You come to the east part of Europe, let me know, You can be my guests and see what I am speaking about.
Do not fret, when the old gulag-guys come to me and ask if I have 'forty" to help them along. (40 = the cheapest medicin to help to forget = vodka).
If we speak ‘forties’, yes I can afford it, belive me I have no problem with money. I love my presense here.
I am needed. I pay every working guy when they get freed, so much that they can go home and buy some toys to their children.
Children that they often haven’t seen, or seen at 1 year old.
Then, when I am in the village where the freed guy lives, I am 'djadja genri", = uncle Henry.
The wife, the mother knows what I have done in the jail, the children knows that I am the sailor (when father was at sea for many years) that helped papa.
As there was people helping my step-father( who was a hero in the war) “when he was at the sea”…
Just believe me, we are all people.
Thank You for reading.
So… is this a happy ending? I love happy endings, but I’m so terribly, terribly confused…
Yes. I still want to thank You all for Your understanding.
I have some buttons in me that makes me hit the roof at once.
It is a fault inside me that I still have to work with to be a better person. I will.
I still want to ask of forgivness from You all. I hope we will come along just well.
If nothing else good have been the result of this all, I have anyhow learned something positive.
From my bottom of my heart, when seen through my life what misunderstanding can cause, I think that SDMB and such boards with a civilized discussion around the world, is very needed.
Something very positive.
I hope I can continue and be a little bit better writer every day.
Anyhow, SDMB has already been a forum where I have learned a lot, and is that not more or less the truth for everyone of us?
Now I try to make the heavy road to Canossa, if I can find the E-mail address to Lynn Bodoni.
I really hope I do not get banned.
Henry
Yes, I am originating from a Finnish-Swedish 6% minority, born in Helsinki, Finland.
When I was a child I had to fight often about this.
Later my best friend was a guy, Pavel, a Ukrainan guy, whose parents had fled Stalin.
It did not matter that Pavel was anti-Stalin etc. all kids saw us like a Finn-Swede that speaks Finnish with an accent and a Russian kid. You can just guess how popular a Russian guy was in Finland in the 50’ties after two lost wars against Stalin 10 -15 years earlier. In our neighbourhood You could not walk to school without seeing a invalid of war and even more men that had lost totally their soul to their war years. They were and is still my heroes, but unfortunately very few kids were tought not to hate at school etc.
The result was that we, Pavel and I, fought even more, not needing to go to the other side of the street every time we met certain youths.
I ahve always been quite small but Pavel grew very big and when we were about 14 - 15 years old, we were quite accepted and even I spoke Finnish like a street hooligan, as we in fact were.
This is also why I have so easy to work in a Russian jail as a teacher, because ‘I have seen all the guys before’. The names and language was different, but we people here on earth are all in principle the same.
Naturally I learned later, when the mental and economical scars were forgotten, to act more civilized.
You might also understand why I am also in all posts so against wars. In fact many years in my youth and as an middle aged person I was looked as a “extreem right-wing” when I spoke about how to work and what can be expected from a citizen and what should be the result etc. Often using the JFK words “Don’t ask what Your country can do for You, ask what You can do for Your country”.
And then, on the other hand, people shouted at me “commie”, because I participated in peace marches etc.
Now here in Russia, is a very strong nationalistic tendency, here are many populistic politicians which are not far away from facism.
I try to invite every year 5 Russians to Finland, so that they will understand that we all are the same with same worries etc.
It is so little I can do, but I and my Russian friends are now opening a commercial and cultural sociaty between Vologda oblast and Finland. In the last war, most of the Russian solidiers at the Finnish front, were from Vologda oblast.
Ok. This became a rant, but just so that You would understand me a little bit better.
Henry
You can find Lynn’s e-mail address at the top of the BBQ Pit Main forum page. Where it says “Moderated by Lynn Bodoni”. Click on that.
Can I clear up something else?
A lot of the Americans on this board will use the term “free speech” erroneously, which contributes to misunderstandings beyond our borders. “Free speech” in the United States is only protected against suppression by the government or quasi-governmental entities. That means a private person or a message board or your mother can suppress your speech all they want. When someone on the SDMB squawks about their free speech being messed with, they need a review in Civics.
And just to recap, in the U.S. it’s quite common, and non-offensive, to use terms like:
Jew
Swede
Finn
Pole
etc. They aren’t offensive.