Do you want a cite for the “gay uncle” theory, or that homosexuality has biological causes in general? Here’s a good overview: Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia
Sorry, you don’t get to play that game.
You marched in with the assertion someone cannot be born gay, and that any genetic predisposition to homosexuality would have been weeded out in the evolutionary process.
If you’re going to ask someone else to provide citations for their rebuttals, you should pony up some evidence first. Especially when Anne Neville was merely offering some possibilities.
Why not i simply offered an opinion on an evolutionary process , if you don’t reproduce your genes don’t get passed on, if you are gay you are less likely to reproduce over time this should have eliminated any gay genes. Are you disputing evolution in general? Do i need to link Origin of Species? Ann made some assertions that I found interesting and would have liked to know more about, so i requested a cite. Also the idea that if homosexuality were genetic it would have been weeded out by evolution is not a stupid idea at all, it is in fact a very logical idea…genes that do not promote the continuation the species should get weeded out by evolution, thats how evolution works.
Get off your fucking high-horse.
And Anne Neville merely offered some opinions on why your opinion might be overly simplistic. Her argument is no less consonant with theories of evolution than yours.
No. Just questioning your understanding of it.
Why not be a bit more polite about it, rather than a single-word demand?
You’re cute when you splutter.
The problem being that there are all kinds of genetic manifestations that reduce your chance of reproduction, but still recur. Think Down’s syndrome, and things like that. So that’s one thing.
The other is, good-bye.
Regards,
Shodan
You could have said it a bit more politely (like you did here). I got most of that from Dr Tatiana’s Sex Advice to All Creation, a fascinating book about sex and reproduction in many different species.
Of course it can work out. I met a guy well into his 50’s who genuinely loved his wife and raised something like three kids to adulthood before coming out. They talked. A lot. They did divorce, but amicably, and as a consequence of dad coming out, one of his sons worked up the courage to come out. Who knows how long he’d have stayed closeted otherwise.
Whether your friend requires counseling is up to her. But the sooner she gets this all out in the open the better for everyone.
It worked for Tony Randall 
…or come out as still straight but just " not that into" his wife. That’s plenty common and difficult for either party of the marriage to anticipate with certainty. We just don’t know what’s around the next corner…ever.
kambuckta:
The kid followed dad to a movie showing “Fisting Firemen Part 9”.
It’s a trick question, Wee Bairn. They only got to part 5.
Regards,
Shodan
Watch it, pal. My dad’s gay and my siblings and I aren’t fucked up. We happen to be 3 perfectly functional adults. There’s a million examples of marriages that go bad that the kids survive and turn out fine. Why should the reason for the divorce (and that’s where your friend is headed, OP) matter?
ETA: I should add that the way I found out about my dad (and I knew before anyone) was by checking the temporary internet files and finding gay porn sites. When he moved out and got a new computer, they resurfaced and I had my confirmation.
The crucial missing step in this logical sequence is linking specific genes or combinations thereof to being gay and linking those genes in other, non-gaymaking combinations to either having neutral or negative effect on survivability. Several people have provided several explanations for why that might not be the case. They don’t need to have cites for the fact that your logic isn’t complete (although, it’d be nice if they were asserting something), you need to show that it’s complete in order to support the argument that being gay has no genetic cause.
Here’s an example of applying your spurious logic to a well-known recessive gene that, when reinforced, is detrimental to fitness, but alone can be beneficial. If you have sickle-cell anemia, you’re much more likely to die before reproducing. Therefore sickle-cell anemia should have been eliminated from the gene pool, and thus, can’t be caused by genetics. What this argument fails to consider is that if you have the gene for it from only one parent, then you are more resistant to malaria, which is (was?) a net benefit in some parts of the world.
Now, I’m not claiming that being gay is like having sickle-cell. I’m just pointing out that your argument as formulated doesn’t work.
I’m rather fond of Dan Savage’s argument that one’s sexuality is not chosen. To a straight male: “Is there anything at all that society could do that would make you want to take a man’s penis, put it in your mouth, and keep it there until he comes? Then what makes you think it works the other way?”
Regarding the OP: While a marriage might be able to survive incompatible sexualities, it can’t meaningfully survive deception and distrust. Secretiveness and lies are the major problem in this case. Once that’s dealt with, your friend can see about the rest.
[Moderator Hat Off]Believe it or not, people may not agree with you on how evolution works. If you wish to argue this point further, though, please start an appropriate thread in Great Debates.[/Moderator Hat Off]
[Moderator Hat On]This type of attack/response might be appropriate for The BBQ Pit, but not IMHO. Please try to remember where you are when you post. Thank you.[/Moderator Hat On]
Inspector Butters is on the case!
But right here you stopped having your Moderator Hat Off! Now it’s grafted to your skull-- you’ll be continually moderating! RUUUUNNNN!!! Rampaging Mod on the loose!!!
Ok, next time I post something, it won’t be before leaving for a ten-hour workday. I’ll try to address some of the questions, but pulling quotes and referencing names will take too long, so let’s pretend these are all for kambuckta’s benefit.
How did the daughter find out about the suspicious activity? She witnessed it herself. Mom knew nothing at all, until the upset daughter came to her with her suspicions about the meaning of what she had witnessed. She loves her dad, and wanted an explanation for what really was circumstantial evidence…the first time. They both confronted him about the incident, and he gave a very plausible explanation, everyone gave a sigh of relief and laughed about overreacting. Then two months later…daughter sitsdown at the family computer and finds a MySpace page.Now her dad has a MySpace she helped him set up…but this wasn’t it. And on this one, he says he’s questioning his sexuality, and regrets living as a straight man for the last 25 years…the length of their marriage. And even without a picture of him, she knows it’s his…because the photo he has up is a photo he took of some artwork, as well as the fact that all Daddy’s new friends that he’s going out drinking with, and helping to move, and lending money to…are on his friend’s page. So she shows all this to her mom, and mom asks her to not confront him this time…mom wants time to work out what to do.
As to the condoms…Mom found those. He had complained that there was a hole in his jacket pocket, and my friend hadn’t had a chance to mend it. So one day when the weather warmed up for a day and he wore a different jacket to work, she saw it hanging there and decided to mend the hole. Instead she found the condoms and the lube. She put everything back, didn’t mend the hole…and then checked everyday. He went out drinking with his new friends a few nights later, and when he came home…they were gone.
And before anyone gets on their high horse about snooping…just drop it, okay? Once you discover something is going on, it’s called self preservation. Once you discover someone is cheating on you, you need to get the information you need to protect yourself.
Now here’s a few more background facts about this couple. They met at a dance class, and got married when they were both a wee bit older than most of their peers were when they got married…but not dramatically. After a few years, they decided it was time to have kids. She had trouble conceiving at first, then they had two kids, both of whom are now adults. The oldest is in the military like his dad was, and lives in the barracks. The younger, the daughter (or snoop with an agenda, as referenced upthread) had trouble adjusting to college and recently moved back home to go to community college.
My friend had a difficult delivery when her daughter was born…nearly died, and had an emergency C-section. They were told that having more kids would be dangerous, and since they’d only wanted two, it was not a huge problem…but they didn’t have sex anymore, first out of fear, then exhaustion, then…lack of desire. She complained once to me that they both seemed to have really low sex drives, but that it was probably good they BOTH shared that trait. Anyhow, years pass, they’ve both gotten heavier, both have health problems, then he retired from the military,started a new career…and they are really struggling financially. Lots of debt…divorcing now would be a disaster, financially. There just is no money to support two households…they barely support their one…and these are people of modest habits.
They are also both very religious, very, very active in the church, and with the kids’ activities, and until recently, they were both quite the homebodies…rather stay home and watch a video with pizza than go out. And the husband has been very anti-gay. Their particular church is in an area of the country that has a very conservative agenda, and in fact their denomination was embroiled in some negative publicity regarding their stance on gay marriage. He’s aways been vocal about his dislike of gays…in fact, it was one of the few bigoted things I ever recall him saying. They seemed like a good match, a good team. Hard-working, Bible-study leader type.
And then about a year ago, he started changing. They’ve both been dieting, trying to get healthier…he quit smoking, during a religious crusade thing, laying his cigarettes on the altar and asking God’s help.When his daughter discovered he hadn’t been able to quit and was smoking again, she (in typical self-centered teenager at the time fashion) had a slight falling out with him because she felt he’d lied to her, and she couldn’t trust his word anymore, and if he’d lied to God, who else would he lie to, yada, yada… Anyhow, then he starts hanging out with some new friends…younger guys…and starts going out drinking with them…something he has NEVER done before. The one guy (who is living with a woman) is going to hairdresser school (no, honestly) and gives him a new cut and I believe highlights! And now he’s picking fights with the wife and the daughter…this most easy-going of guys…and then…all this happens.
So that’s the background. No one went looking for suspicious things…they are being played out in the open. The only thing not in the open right now is the fact that she knows. She wants to wait until school is out for the summer (she’s a teacher) and she’s had a chance to talk to a counselor. I will share those web resources with her…thanks for the links. She really would be accepting of him being gay, and not divorcing…but not if he’s out there sleeping around. And she is of course hurt, and demoralized, and blaming herself.
He doesn’t want to “save the marriage.” He wanted to get caught. He requested she mend his jacket, he put condoms in it, and he left it in the house? He made it possible for his daughter to find his MySpace page?
Honestly, it sounds like only one person is interested in not divorcing. She needs to come to terms with the fact that her marriage is over. He’s not going to agree to stop having sex with men. He’ll just keep lying and sneaking around her back–no matter how ineptly. Why on earth would he agree to stay married to a person he’s not attracted to? Why on earth would he agree to stop having sex with people he is attracted to? The best thing you can do is offer her support and a reality check.
No. I knew I was gay when I was 5. I didn’t know a damn thing about sex, I just had a spontaneous fantasy that was, in retrospect, unmistakably homosexual. I don’t see any possible way that I was capable ofmaking a “choice” at that age. And as far as evolution is concerned, throughout history most gay people led very straight lives, including having kids.