A while back “60 Minutes” (or “20/20”)-I can’t remember which, carried a rather strange story about an incident that happened on 9/11, while the WT Towers were burning. It seems a NJ housewife saw five men videotaping the burning towers, and laughing loudly while doing so. She reported this odd behaviourto the NJ State Police, and they stopped a white van matching her description. The five men inside were arrested, and were all Israeli nationals, who worked for a moving company (owned by an Israeli national). Later, the FBI got involved, and raided the headquarters of this moving company-the owner had fled the country (he is now in Israel). The five arrested were interrogated, and then released-all five are in Israel. The story ended when the “60 Minutes” reporter went to israel to attempt to interview the five-none of them would say anything about the incident.
Does anybody know more about this? Has anything new emerged on these 5 people? Why were they videotaping the disaster? And, why have they refused to talk about the incident? The story gave the impression that all 6 were working for theMossad-has this ever been verified?
I’d appreciate some links on this story!
Maybe the Al Jazeera Network?
Not having seen the story, I can think of a number of questions and comments.
First of all - just about EVERYBODY seems to have been videotaping/photographing the burning and collapse of the towers. It’s probably the best documented building collapse in history. That’s why there’s so much footage for the networks to play over and over and over and… So, videotaping in and of itself is not a suspicious act.
Second - was it actually laughter this woman heard? Was it the nervous, shaky laughter that some people make in the face of overwhelming terror, a reaction that does occur with a certain percentage of the population, or was it “Oh, that’s a good one!” type laughter? Was it even laughter at all?. Crying and laughing can be mistaken for each other.
Third - how many witnesses? Was it just one NJ housewife, or were there other people who saw and can confirm these people where filming and laughing?
Fouth - from the of “the police stopped a van matching the description” forward it starts to sound like an urban legend.
Fifth - if I was foreigner living in a country that had just suffered an attack like 9/11, and I and my moving company had been accused by a citizen of being part of a plot to commit such an act, yeah, I’d probably flee the country, too - even if I was innocent. Because mob “justice” is so ugly and one-sided.
I think what I’m getting at is just because it appeared on 60 minutes doesn’t mean it’s the truth. I’d need to see some solid evidence.
“Working for the Mossad” is one of those wonderfully safe impressions to leave a viewing audience with - people can interpret the implication in any twisted, sinister way they like.
Was there any specific theory put forward in this programme, or was the innuendo that only those who were trying to hide something sinister would flee to Israel (gee whiz, I can’t think of any reason why Israelis might flee following a massive attack which was repeatedly referred to in the media as being perpetrated by “Arabs”).
It isn’t a crime to not wish to talk to reporters from “Current Affairs” programmes - much as they might try to persuade the viewing public otherwise. Hell, I’d run a mile if one of them came near me, too.
Stop dreaming these stories. When will Militant Muslims stop claiming that Islam is about peace and that its the Mossad doing all the bombings ?
Doing A google search on - NJ Israel Agents Rumors - I came up with the link - http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.03.15/news2.html.
Don’t know how genuine the website is - but it has the same rumor there.
File not found (for me anyway).
I’ve heard people laugh like this before. Back when I was at MSU, I witnessed a car/motorcycle accident where the 'bike guy was obviously badly hurt. After calling 911, I noticed this asian student from down the hall was laughing and saying stuff like “Wow, maybe he’s dead!”. At the time, I thought that this guy had to be the most cold-hearted person in the universe, but later someone explained to me that some people laugh as a defense mechanism. I guess that it’s basically a form of denial.
I read an interview (I think it was in the South China Morning Post) with several Pakistanis - sort of the “man on the street” interviews in relation to 11 Sept. They were all convinced that the attacks on the WTC etc were part of a Mossad conspiracy, designed to bolster American support behind an Israeli offensive on terrorists. Perhaps the “white van” story supplements this.
(I also know an American guy who is convinced that the attacks were orchestrated by Big Oil with the Pesident’s knowledge in order to get a pipeline through Afghanistan rather than expensively through Azerbajan or Iran, so I guess people will throw Occam’s Razor away and believe anything if they really want to.)
:smack: Sorry about that link - it had a period at the end, which is the culprit. Try this - http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.03.15/news2.html
I seem to remember that the story of people being arrested after filming the burning WTC was reported by the major news services very shortly after the attack - But I have a memory like Swiss cheese so don’t take my word for it.
Anyway, the story that these people were Israeli was going round the…erm…alternative news sites last year. I’m having a look to see if I can find anything on them. At the moment I’ve just found this one:
http://www.davidicke.net/newsroom/america/newyork/092001a.html
Okay, apparently it was a 20/20 show called “The White Van”, broadcast on June 24, 2002, with Barbara Walters.
Transcript.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html
But I don’t see any kind of updates anywhere --they were interrogated and then deported, end of story. Some people believe they were spies for the Mossad, some people believe they weren’t. Officially, they weren’t.
Andy’s link, from the newspaper The Forward, apparently believes they were. But it’s important to remember that just because they may have been spying for Israel doesn’t have anything to do with the 9/11 bombings, unless you’re one of the conspiracy theorists who believe the Jews were behind it… :rolleyes:
Foreign countries have “intelligence gathering operatives” (spies) in other people’s countries all the time.
The Israelis in the white van weren’t part of the plan to attack the WTC.
They were, however, trying to sell low-quality stereo speakers.
I call BULLSHIT on this story.
Well, it apparently really happened, Bryan–they really did arrest a group of 5 Israeli guys, white van, videotaping, etc.
The only “bullshit” is the conspiracy theory spin that some folks wanna put on it.
oops…
I mean, say what you will about Barbara Walters and ABC and 20/20–I don’t think they’d do a whole show on something that never happened at all, period.
That’s Fox’s job. 
This thread naturally leads to the numerous reports that appeared in the main stream media some time ago about a bunch of “art students” seemingly “casing” a half dozen or so buildings in the U.S. I don’t remember the details well because the whole thing was so bizarre but IIRC the “students” did carry Israeli passports so there was some speculation about espionage. Like so many bizarre stories, this one died without any plausible explanation. Do any Dopers have access to the NY Times morgue?
Oops. I didn’t really mean “the ‘students’ did carry Israeli passports so there was some speculation about espionage.” The speculation about espionage was because they apparently were not really art students. There was then speculation about a Mossad connection because many of them carried Israeli passports.
And about people seeming to laugh in the face of tragedy… It is absolutely normal in some cultures to smile and even appear to laugh (more of a giggle) when delivering embarassing or bad news. For example, you arrive at 01h00 after a day of arduous travel at the hotel where you booked a room a month ago and the desk clerk tells you that he is so sorry but they lost your reservation and have no rooms available, giggle-giggle. You have to get used to it.
I was just wondering…the story just died. My guess is that the Israeli nationals were intelligence agents, and that the moving company was a cover for them. As to why they were videotaping the WTC towers burning-who knows? Presumably, it must of been of some value to Israeli intelligence.
I just found it odd that an agency known for discreetness (the Mossad) would expose its operatives to detection and arrest, over such (apparently) juvenile behavior.
Or they could’ve have been interested in taping a scene that most people will never see in their lives. If these five guys were arrested, why weren’t the other hundreds, if not thousands, of people who were taking video and pictures?
Do you have any PROOF that the men were Mossad agents? And by proof, I don’t mean random speculation.
This is more or less how I remember it being reported in Israel after the arrests:
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/10/26/News/News.36989.html
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/11/23/News/News.38640.html