This came to me via a friend whose girlfriend is rather new to eBay (though hardly a total neophyte). He has consulted me as an eBay “expert” (I average about 1 transaction a month).
It seems his GF recently won an auction for some unspecified DVDs. I gather she was a trifle impulsive and wound up deciding she didn’t really need them all that much. But, through some sort of mixup, they arrived almost immediately - before she’d sent any payment.
She’s now claiming this means she doesn’t have to pay. My friend is telling her that she does; that’s my view as well. Her argument is that if some mail-order outfit sends you something you didn’t pay for, you can keep it. Our argument is that this doesn’t apply here - she bid, won the auction, and the fact that she received the DVDs sooner than expected is a benefit, not a problem.
I’ve already lost standing with her by failing to offer the advice she was hoping for. She claims that the problem “is the seller’s fault” because the DVDs arrived before she’d sent payment. I pointed out that she’d certainly get negative feedback if she defaults; her response is that she’ll then leave negative feedback for the seller: “I wouldn’t let him get away with that.” I’ve suggested that she spend some time re-reading eBay’s rules, but this again isn’t what she wants to hear. She claims that a couple of her friends support her, but I’m not sure if they know much about eBay, or whether she’s actually explained the situation fully.
I’ve decided to cut my losses and bow out, since my advice isn’t improving things and isn’t appreciated. Actually, it looks like I’ve made things worse for my friend by agreeing with him.
I think in future I’ll be more careful about offering my opinion.
IIRC, when you confirm your bid, you are reminded (as is written in the UAP) that a bid is a legal contract. A bid is an agreement to pay should you win the auction and to abide by terms agreed upon by both eBay and the seller (ie shipping costs and so forth outlined in the auction).
Most sellers generally wait for payment to clear first, but some do ship out early as a benefit to their customers as well as to raise their ratings as a quick shipper.
I agree with lonesome. She takes the item but doesn’t pay, then is low enough to say she’d leave neg feedback while she steals from the seller? She’s a thief.
She can get into legal trouble as well as be banned from eBay. Bad move on her part.
She is probably confusing this with the idea that you don’t have to pay for something that is sent to you in the mail if you didn’t order it. This is different. She ordered it.
Right. Which is why I’m more comfortable calling her a cheat as opposed to a thief. She’s exploiting the honor system. That’s cheating and stealing, but not necessarily theft. The seller sent it to her on good faith.
I beg to differ. I have done a lot of buying/selling on Ebay, and the buyer always, always, always pays first. The fact that the seller sent first seems to indicate to me that it’s the seller that is up to something fishy. The buyer pays first because a) they were the one to initiate the transaction, theoretically they are more “desperate” than the seller and b) so that if they want to back out (as the buyer in this case might have) they have the opportunity to do that (taking into consideration the fact that they will get hit with a NPB charge).
It’s the same with brick and mortar stores. It’s like if someone in a store, once you brought the item up to the checkout line, just wrapped it up, gave you a receipt, and sent you on your merry way. You may think you have a moral obligation to tell them about the mistake, and you might sleep better at night if you do, but IMO it is their screw-up and I don’t think that someone who “steals” in this manner is on the same level at all with someone who actually steals merchandise.
I’m not saying I would “steal” (I’d call it “accept”) this unpaid-for merchandise, but IMO the seller’s behavior also went against Ebay standards. If someone is sloppy enough to send out merchandise that hasn’t been payed for, I don’t have much sympathy if they’re “robbed.”
You can put quotes around steal and robbed all you want, it dosen’t change the meaning.
What if you went to your hypothetical brick and mortar store, paid for your home stereo system, and then they didn’t bring it out to your car as per the agreement? Hey, they got your cash before you actually got the stereo. Your fault for being sloppy, right? No problem with them “accepting” your cash, right?
I’ve heard of mail scam companies sending people things they never ordered, then billing them when the recipient didn’t send back the package, even though they thought the package was a gift. Not the case here, but it’s happened.
Like I said, I wouldn’t not pay (I pay for all my auctions immediately through Paypal anyway), but I also wouldn’t whale on the buyer when they were sent something that didn’t conform to typical Ebay protocol, something they might not have wanted at all and wanted to cancel (in which case, they would receive a NPB notice, and that would be fine). I don’t see any reason other than blind naivete why a seller would send the item first. Like I said, it really reminds me of a mail scam, even though I know it is not the case. They should have followed the unwritten rules.
I’d like to emotionally retract my last two comments; rereading them it seems like they read just way too intense and they make it seem like I am siding with her, which I am not. I still think calling her a thief and talking about slapping people is overkill, but what she did was wrong.
Whether she was sent the product before or after she paid is irrelevent. As per Ebay rules (which she AGREED to), a bid is a promise to pay. She entered into contract to trade one item for another (money for item). The one with the money TYPICALLY gives first, but its not a requirement. Yes she is entitled to back out if she no longer wants the product. Its shady, but she can do it. But if she doesn’t want the product, she is legally required to give it back. Waiting for payment is just safe business practice, but just because they shipped before payment, does not change the fact that a contract was entered into. However if she does decide to back out of the contract, she could ask them to pay for the shipping because they jumped the gun a little by not giving her time to back out. Her standing with Ebay won’t be good though.
