“I’ll pay you to let me work here!”
Did he then say “Good niiiiiiiight ding-ding-ding-ding-ding! A good niiiiiiight ding-ding-ding-ding-ding”?
Except that’s not what the OP is saying. He said “If the salary you have quoted is lower, you will then get the amount listed in the enevlope.”
So then the question becomes “What in the hell is the point?”
RealityChuck, can you spoil that story for us (in a box, obviously)? I’m intrigued…
Oh wait, maybe it isn’t quite as stupid as it looks. The candidate could lowball with $0, but the amount in the envelope might be similarly low, so potentially they might reach an agreement at, say, $0.99.
Wait, if the applicant can just walk away from the agreement, then this is still stupid.
Only if this game is a binding application agreement, and the applicant is legally required to accept the position at the salary in the envelope, does this scenario become interesting and not so stupid. Or if the applicant had to seal his/her bid in an envelope, and the answer is to do something tricky like stuffing the employer’s envelope in the applican’t envelope. That would be interesting too. If it isn’t either one of these then it is just a very, very crude IQ test.
Wow.
That’s just bizarre - and I can usually find some value in almost anything weird interviewers do.
I rather like puzzle interviews, though I don’t think people always use them correctly. Even though I don’t like it, I can see why someone may ask “where do you see yourself in 5 years?” I thoroughly hate the bad Myers-Briggs tests and similar inventories that sometimes show up - but still I can make sense of it.
This is just a sign to not take that job.
If someone pulled this on me I would walk. I’m more than willing to negotiate in good faith with a prospective employer, but I’m not going to play power games.
I’d just say, “You should pay me what you pay everyone else with my education and experience.” (if applicable) I wouldn’t give them a dollar figure. I hate games.
These kind of games are part of why I hate interviews so much. Just tell me how much you’re going to pay me, and let me accept or reject it.
The rule of thumb is “Whoever mentions an amount first, loses.”
I’d like to agree with everyone who said the applicant should walk, but I’ve been unemployed, and I know how hungry for a job I was then.
I think that most applicants have a good idea what the typical salary is in their industry for a specific position. I agree that it’s a reprehensible question, but I think I’d be able to give a satisfactory answer. I know both my minimum and the typical industry minimum for the position, so I can easily state the minimum I’d be willing to take.
If you don’t know these two figures, you may be too comfortable in your job.
I went through a weird situation with this in my most recent job interview process. I interviewed for over a year within both the advertising and retailing industry and found every salary offer to be roughly within a decent percentage of what I was currently making.
But then I interviewed at my current place. I took a 25% increase there and later found out that they expected to pay someone of my stature roughly $15,000 MORE than they offered me. I was dumb enough to give a range (long story, but it was a long day and my guard was down on a phone call) and they surpassed the range I asked for so I can’t rightly complain. I’m happy with my new salary but there’s the nagging feeling that they’re paying other people at my level so much more so why am I not getting that?
So I’m left completely confused because this company expects to pay far more than any other place I interviewed at. I was left scratching my head with that one. I just have to gun for a promotion and hope that I get a little closer to the standard pay for that level.
Now that would be interesting, as my friend used to learn some sleight-of-hand intensive card tricks from an amauter magician for sorts
Working and living in Singapore this absolutley does not surprise me, it is the sort of insane games many employers will pay.
Jsut a quick note, if it is a “local” (read Singaporean Chinese) owned company, my experience is that they are out to screw employees as much as possible, the basic idea is NOT to pay the employee what you think they are worth, but the lowest possible salary they will work for.
Your friend should simply name what they honestly think they are worth, and not worry about what is in the envelope.
Just as an aisde though, I can see some reasoning for this, many Singaporeans have an “overblown” opinion of their skills and unrealsitic salary job expectations - the interviewer may be trying to find out if this is the case and may not want to hire a potential prima donna. Granted, not the most logical way to go about it, but then, many things here are not done in the most logical manner when it comes to Human Resources (as an example, my wife has to apply for Child Care leave at least three weeks in advance, and must supply documentary proof of why she needs it)
ExtraKun, what did your friend up doing and what was the outcome?
I agree. This is the same game that’s played at nearly every job in Calgary (“What salary are you looking for?” “What are you offering?” “Well, tell us what you’re looking for so we can hire you for that instead of the $10,000 more that we were paying your predecessor.”) It’s garbage. The employers always know what they are willing to pay a new hire, and the new hire rarely knows how high a new employer is willing to go. I have found that most companies will tell you what they’re offering after you name a ridiculously high figure, then you can start the real negotiations; it’s just a bullshit little game that employers still like to play, probably because they learned it in some “Managing for $uccess” seminar they took in the 80’s or at HR school.
I would ask for $40 million a year and signing bonuses, plus housing and a helicopter. Either they were just going to give me what I asked for all along–sweet!–or they really mean they won’t accept me if my number is higher than the one in the envelope, which means I would’ve had a miserable life there anyway.
I did some confirmation. My friend asked for Singaporean $1300 – the employer revealed the envelope to hold $1400. He got paid $1400.
I can’t reveal what he’s working as, as it would be a dead-give away what’s company is. It’s quite obivous as his job is quite rare over here.
I have to ask a cite for this; I have known Singaporeans to be fussy about their jobs. The story I hear here is that when compared to the influx of foregin workers, Singaporeans expected to be paid more. This is understandable, as a local, for the cost of living here is high here. The top three woes of a family here are housing (not cheap), cars (defintely not cheap) and education (yes, school fees are taken care by the government; but there are inherently other costs when it comes to education, given that almost every Singaporean parents want to see their kids excel in academic).
But why turn it into a guessing game? You guessed too low, and you lose the job, despite that I am qualified. I hazard it’s a psychological thing:
- Because of the threat of losing the job, you quote a lower price
- Chances are that, if you are savvy about the industry, you will quote lower than induistry norms
- Once the employer reveals the expected figure, it might be equal or higher
3a) If it is higher, then you are grateful for getting the job. For a moment there you lowered your expectations, so you are less likely to grumble
3b) If it’s the same, then you have just verbally agreeded to the pay, and is less likely to be unhappy with pay.
It’s like what “How to make friends and influence people” says – get the other party to say ‘Yes’ to your proposal.
I am wondering if it is ethical, though. Where can I start checking?
Extrakun - apologies I don’t have an empirical cite beyond my own experience interviewing and managing entry level positions. This is by no means all encompassing, but it should stand for something. BTW - I used to manage my own company, (and staff) hold a degree in HR and managed a team of employees in my home country in a small business, so hopefully my opinion should count for something.
As far as living in Singapore, I actually find houses very very affordable (and yes I have bought one), mainly because you can pay out of your compulsory retirement contributions (mine cover 100% of the mortgage - so I never have to come up with any cash 
) To date, in purchasing the house, and two years of mortgage payments I have only had to cough up about $7,000 in cash (including laywers fees, deposit and conveyancing costs) how is this not affordable??
One thing that needs to be understood about Singapore, many of the games played by local employers are nonsensical by my standards (like the time I was “chewed out” for refusing to go to a weekend company function that was a full 90 minutes travel from my house, said function was for families when I was living here alone and had no interest in mixing with families)
Hmm yeah, housing’s affordable too. I was speaking from my experiences, blah, 'cos there are ways to get yourself into a bind about housing; especially when your CPF is dried, and you are on your third or fourth flat, and you got to buy from the private market. Okay, transport! Transport’s expensive! 
And when you are single, everything’s affordable
Extrakun Dude…
Yeah transport is super expensive, especially as a family - I am not single, married with one daughter, one bro in law, two inlaws (who don’t talk to each other) and a maid.
Actually the point that needs to be made, is that by any standards of logic I apply, I am never able to understand many Singapore employment practises, but I HAVE specifically designed / asked questions to find out if my interviewees were prima donnas…so I offer this as a potential reasoning.
Oh…and as to “is the game legal” - so long as you are an “executive” (earning more than I think $1,200 per month) you have absolutely no protection at all in the eyes of the law - at this level of salary the ONLY applicable law is contract law.
It is very hard to prove or even suggest unfair dismissal, and in many instances I have seen pregnant women hounded out of jobs so the employer need not pay maternity benefits, and from what I have seen the government condones this on the basis of - “you can take them to court if you want to”. you (as an employee against a multi million dollar company do not suffer from a power imbalance)
Hmmm… I better stop now before this starts to degenerate, suffice to say, although I have done very well out of it, I hate the Singapore concept of HR (although there are good companies out there), and although I very much enjoy my job, in the abstract sense, Singapore is a “sucky” place to work.