biggestdog99,
Asked my neighbor about the whistle training. Turns out it was only effective in conditioning the dog against it’s stalking/herding of the children, and it immiediatly took to herding a flock (covvy, brood, gaggle, whatever) of chickens. Sorry.
The whistle was a British lifeboat whistle. No idea what that might be.
Judging by these later posts it sounds like it wouldn’t be humane (or even possible) to end the practice altoghter.
May I offer an uneducated opinion here?
I am the very proud owner of a 3 yr. old female border collie - spayed when she was 1 yr. old. It sounds like I live in similar circumstances to you, biggestdog (lots of room, woods, lake, and somewhat isolated). We also had a problem with our dog (Penny) trying to herd the car when it came up the driveway. My husbands solution? A solid blast of the horn whenever she got near the car. We only had to do this perhaps 4 or 5 times, and have never had a problem since.
Good luck, and try to persevere. I have never known a more intelligent, loving and loyal dog. Any extra time and effort that you may have to put into training will be well worth it.
About a year back I descended with half a dozen cats on my sister, who had a collie named Jake and a couple of her own cats. The cats were fascinated, and surrounded the dog at a respectable distance. The dog would look at a cat in one direction, and another cat from another direction would move sightly closer. This went on until the dog was gradually herded into a corner.
Later that evening, we held a dinner party. One table, sixteen people, eight cats, and one dog. All was well until the dog tried to make a break for it. All hell broke loose. Cats chasing dog, dog chasing cats, cats chasing cats, and through it all, my sister crying: “Call off your cats! Call off your cats!”
I don’t want to hi-jack this thread hear, but I just read something that really disturbs me. As I understand it biggestdog99, you now own 9 dogs, 5 of which are bred from the scariest most unpredictable breed I know of running free on your unsecured property.
Twenty five years ago I was the prey of a pack of domestic dogs. It was 2 o’clock in the morning. About 100 yards from the house I exited, they came at me. I was mildly drunk and scared, but I figured I had nothing to lose by bluffing them and running right at them. Some backed off but other started coming at my heels. Very quickly I established a pattern of four steps toward the house and three steps back. Fortunately I made it without a scratch.
Now I had seen some of these dogs before and they were friendly. As I understand it though, a pack of dogs becomes
a separate entity and a sort of dangerous mob mentality takes over. That a pack of domestic dogs will do more harm than a pack of wolves.
We have several dog experts here. Is no one concerned with this 9 free running dog situation here?
I am really confused about the roles of the dogs in the family. Not allowed in the house? So are they “farm dogs” or companions? Are they working dogs?
Yeah, Scylla was harsh, but I see his point. You backpedaled and said your OP was “tongue in cheek,” but I saw nothing to indicate that. Your thread is titled “stupid border collie” and the OP indicates that you know nothing about the breed. Border Collies are a unique and special breed, and you obviously did not do your homework before taking him home. My husband and I both adore the breed, but will not adopt one because we don’t have the right environment for one.
What’s his name, anyway?
Might I suggest a rather immediate and practical solution? Build or buy a goodly sized kennel. Make sure it is placed on either a concrete pad or a wooden deck to prevent digging out, and that the top is also wired to prevent climbing out. Whenever you are ready to leave, place the dog in the kennel. Release him when you come home. No more problem with ‘herding’ the car.
You really need to seriously consider fencing your property, or a section thereof, to contain your dogs. Not only are they at risk from hunters, poison, traps, wildlife, cars, etc. while running loose, they are also a hazard themselves, to wildlife, property, etc. A fence need not be a huge financial burden - a small fence topped with one of those pet-strength electric fences would be sufficient, or even an electric fence by itself.
However, I do agree with Scylla and others that if you truly care about this dog’s well being, you need to work with him to establish a trusting relationship and do some serious training. Please take into account that many animals end up in shelters because of behavior problems - he may have belonged to someone who was incapable of training him and/or coping with his behavior, so they dumped him at the shelter. He may have been abused by previous owners in an attempt to modify his behavior.
Kind of like adopting an abused foster child - he may be quite a challenge. But I’m sure he is well worth the effort - considering how intelligent and motivated Border Collies generally are, you could accomplish some amazing things with this fellow, with a little time and patience! I envy you the opportunity - I fall within the group that admires these dogs greatly, but feel that I don’t have the time and/or facilities (adequately fenced yard) to give one a proper home.
If you are not willing and/or able to properly confine him and train him, perhaps you could try to find him another home that is more suitable? And, as someone else mentioned, I’m sure there is a Border Collie Rescue group that would be willing to either help you with the dog, or help find him a more suitable home. I’ll do a quick search and see what I can turn up for you.
no, no one is concerned about 9 dogs running around in a pack on this property except for those whom might want to enter it with subterfuge. What I mean by the property being ‘enclosed, but not secure’ was that the dogs can get out and get in. The only place they get out to is 600 acres of hilly cattle ranch where I swear they play laser tag with the coyotes. The primary purpose of having these dogs is for my own peace of mind. They provide that by providing healthy doses of entertainment and love, and they provide it by being living ‘intruder’ alarms. We have never had a problem with a utility or delivery truck driver. Ever. If kids ever come onto the property they (the kids and the dogs) are properly supervised and controlled. My quest is to be able to keep this border collie and my own peace of mind. I’m only looking for suggestions on how to do that. (that only means keeping it out of the way of the SUV tires). I don’t want a trials (or whatever you call it) dog. I don’t own sheep. If I have to work w/ the dog 2 hours or even 1/2 an hour a day I don’t want it. I am coming to the conclusion that perhaps I should have chosen better that day at the SPCA, so now my question becomes… Do I dedicate a larger than anticipated part of my life to this dog?, or is it better for both the dog and I to send him on to bigger things? I suppose that is not really a question for the teeming millions, but one i must figure out myself.
so, how do you end this thing anyway… control C?
Okay, these look like the two best places to start:
the North American Border Collie Rescue Network Has a phone number and e-mail address to contact them, but suggests that you first contact a BC rescue organization in your area, and provides a list of links to quite a few.
The Ultimate Border Collie Rescue Page Another long list of BC regional rescue organizations.
There are a LOT of BC rescue organizations out there for specific regions - for example, California, New England, Florida, East Tennessee, etc. If you do a search on Dogpile for Border Collie Rescue, you’ll get more hits than you can manage. If you care to divulge your general location, I’ll be glad to go back and find a specific rescue group to refer you to. They should be able to assist you in re-homing the dog, or help you to work with and train him if you really want to keep him.
Some good B.C. links:
http://www.awaytome.org/pamphlet.html
http://www.bordercollie.org/core.html
And a rescue site:
This is sort of a hijack itself, but I just noticed this and felt like I had to respond. grienspace wrote:
I may be wrong, but I’m assuming you are referring to the pit bull/shepherd mixes, specifically the pit bull part of the mix? Might I ask how much experience you have with pit bulls, that you feel justified in making such a statement?
I work at a vet clinic in an area where pit bulls and pit bull mixes are VERY popular/common - at least a quarter of the dogs that come into the clinic are at least part pit. While pits are not my favorite dog, they would rank close to the top, and I don’t think it fair to let them be characterized so negatively without some comment.
I have NEVER seen a vicious, unpredictable pit. The can be, and often are, very DOG aggressive, but are otherwise one of the sweetest, most tractable breeds I’ve ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Considering the horrible abuse many of these dogs are subjected to by idiotic owners who are TRYING to make them vicious, their happy nature, desire for affection, and tolerance of handling by complete strangers is remarkable.
While feral dog packs, can be a serious, dangerous problem, it doesn’t sound, IMO, that you were in any very great danger twenty-five years ago. 
I don’t mean this as a put-down of any kind, but my guess is that you are not very knowledgeable about or experienced with dogs. Let’s see, the neighborhood dogs are out patrolling their territory at 2 a.m., and some guy they don’t recognize and who is acting a little odd leaves a house and begins walking down what I presume was a deserted street, since you didn’t mention any help being available. The K9 Neighborhood Watch sees this as suspicious behavior - maybe you’re a burglar, or a serial killer - so they come to investigate, probably pulling out their billy clubs and heavy-duty flashlights on the way.
The proper response would have been to stop, face the dogs, stand perfectly still, and begin talking to them in a soft, friendly voice. Especially if, as you say, you had met these dogs before on friendlier terms. Most dogs don’t have particularly keen eyesite, have poor night vision, and are further confused by the tendency of humans to change the color and shape of their ‘fur’ on a daily basis. They need to get close enough to smell you and recognize your scent and voice before they can identify you properly. If you had acted in THIS manner, the dogs would undoubtedly have slowed down or stopped a short distance away, approached you cautiously, and begun sniffing your legs. You could then have slowly extended a hand for further sniffing, then rubbed a few heads while telling them what a wonderful group of watchdogs they are and how much you appreciate their vigilance. Instead of a ‘pack attack’, you would have ended up with a cheerful, protective canine escort all of the way to your door.
What you actually did was send some rather confusing messages that increased what little danger you were already in. First you rush at them, then you back away, then you rush at them again, then back away again - how in the heck are the poor dogs supposed to figure that out? Rushing towards them is either an attack - in which case they should either run from you or attack you in return - or you are asking them if they want to play tag, and they are all ‘it.’ Then you back away, which is either another play invitation with you as ‘it’, or it is a ‘fleeing prey’ action, which is just about guaranteed to trigger a pursuit reponse. Talk about confusing!
Unless this ‘pack’ consisted of teacup Chihuahas, do you honestly think that, if they had been serious, you would be posting on this message board today? You would have been ripped to shreds and scattered up and down the street like Mardi Gras confetti.
Well, yes, which is why I recommended that he improve his fence situation. But my major concern was for the safety of the dogs, not any strange humans who might be wandering around.
biggestdog99, it sounds to me like you should consider contacting one of the rescue groups and asking them to rehome the dog for you. Y’all just aren’t a suitable match. Just explain the situation to them - you rescued the dog from the animal shelter, but he needs more time and attention than you are able to give him, and you’re afraid his behavior is going to cause him to be injured. I hesitate to recommend that you return him to the shelter (although I know that will be easiest for you) because I don’t know what their policies are - I’d hate for you to return him if the shelter is just going to kill him in a few days.
The rescue groups SHOULD be able to take him off your hands in a few days and place him in a foster home where he can be evaluated, retrained, and then placed in a suitable permanent home. Please give this option some serious consideration.