Um, no. If you are truly hulking and burly enough you should be able to lift me in a seated position, while I sit on your ginormous chair hands with my ankles primly crossed until you gently set me on my feet outside the elevator. If there are more than 3 I expect a Marilyn Monroe “Diamonds Are A Girl’s Best Friend” type carry and placement. Come on, you’re hulking. You’re burly. It won’t hurt. Choreography practice will start on Saturday after the ballgame.
Manners are about making the other person feel welcome or comfortable. If the actual “performance” makes the person you are being nice to feel uncomfortable then you probably aren’t doing it right. However, the polite thing to do when someone executes clumsy manners would be a simple smile, possible a nod of the head or and thank you and go on about your day. Getting mad at someone for doing what they thought was nice is about like yelling at a kid that didn’t clean up correctly. They tried.
I think the point lost here is that it wasn’t just one man, it was 7 large guys. Sliding around one or two guys is a breeze, but when you are sandwiched in a box, politely keeping your distance and preserving personal space only to have squeeze through and rub all over the people you were just concentrating on not touching…well, it gets awkward and uncomfortable.
So men, keep up with the good manners your momma taught ya, but maybe think about modifying it a bit when a herd of ya block the path. Honestly, I don’t give a shit enough to care whether I get off the elevator first, I just want to get off of it without feeling like I need a shower.
Well, no, not really. I always err on the side of courtesy, and I never get castigated for it. I hope that’s because I never do it in a patronizing or impractical way. And if a woman walks away muttering under her breath about what a jerk I am? That’s her problem. I’m not going to change my ways just because some people are socially clueless.
To clarify, in pbbth’s example of a very crowded elevator, the men’s reaction didn’t make sense. Again, you never do this if involves delaying anyone. However, in most elevators, there is never a hold up. Most men won’t move until the women begin to depart, and the women already know that they’ll be let off first so they’re already prepared. It’s one of those “feel” things that everyone seems to understand. The only hold-ups are the rare circumstances when a woman wants to make a point of not departing first. I’ve worked in office buildings in Houston and New York and this type of courtesy is standard practice. In fact, one way to tell whether someone isn’t accustomed to regular elevator use is when they don’t understand this process (male or female).
Amen. I mean, to each their own, but breasts are just one part of a woman. There are boob men, leg men, ass men, total package men, etc etc.
I’m a B cup (30B or 32B depending on the bra) and completely happy with that. There was a short time when I was 23 when I considered implants, and saw a surgeon for a consultation. Together we determined that I was already in proportion with my body and if I got them bigger I’d look a little odd.
So now I am happy with them. If I want cleavage, I wear a push-up bra. If some guy is into big breasts, no problem. There are lots of other women he can go look for. I say that without a trace of snark. We’re all different, and we all have things we look for in a mate. C’est la vie.
I’m really glad you didn’t. To me, that tops the list of unnecessary surgeries.
I remember seeing some TV show a few years back, one of those daytime talk-trash-about-men shows, like Ricki Lake or Montel or some other garbage. The subject of the day was teen girls getting implants. When asked why, almost to a girl the answer was “Not to attract men. I want to raise my self-esteem.”
Clueless doen’t even begin to describe it. What made it even worse were the men and women in the audience encouraging them. NOT ONE PERSON expressed the thought that small is beautiful. NOT ONE PERSON expressed the thought that self-esteem doesn’t come from saline bags.
So, you’ve never actually read Miss Manners, have you Sapo? 'Cause if you’re saying her advice is “stupid” because her name is “Miss Manners,” then that shows that you’re just assuming she’s one of those “must put the forks in the right order on pain of death” types. She’s not.
Miss Manners holds that etiquette is a social lubricant. It is about making human interactions easier and more pleasant. Etiquette is not static. It changes over time, and there are very few hard-and-fast rules. And any “rule” can be modified to suit the particular situation.
One thing that she is very consistent on is that one should certainly “violate” a standing rule/custom if following that rule/custom will result in a greater rudeness.
One example is the general custom that children should generally call adults by their “titles” unless instructed otherwise. If Mrs. Jones invites your child to call her “Mary” the child should call her Mary. It’s very rude for you to insist that your child call her Mrs. Jones, because that’s supposedly “more polite.” Refusing to call someone what they want to be called is much ruder than your child calling her by her first name (which isn’t necessarily rude at all.)
This elevator situation is another excellent example of this rule. It is generally considered polite for gentlemen to let ladies off the elevator first. But it is wrong to egregiously violate a person’s personal space if it is not absolutely necessary. Therefore, in pbtth’s case, the guys in question are in fact being quite rude, because by insisting on following the “ladies’ first” custom, they are perpetrating a much greater rudeness.
Or as AIL said:
p.s. You all forgot to mention that pbbth’s boyfriend has a large penis.
(I’m sorry, sweetie, but you really do talk about your sex life and all the related bits and pieces an awful lot. And yes, I noticed that long before this thread. It’s okay. Just tone it way down. But you really do have a great rack.)
The essence of courtesy is to think of the other person first, to make things easier or smoother for them. Yes, I like the old-fashioned rules about ladies first through doors and off of elevators and such, but sometimes those just don’t work. If letting the lady off first is going to make her uncomfortable, or make it more difficult for her and everybody else, then the thing to do is get the heck out of her way, holding the door as you go.
BTW, any gentleman who holds a door for me or lets me off the elevator first is going to get a nice smile and a thank you. I even still remember how to do the “dance” that gets me to the door after the man I’m with, even though I almost never do it with my husband. I’m at that odd age; I learned all those rules growing up, and I’ve lived most of my life without them. I think the last time a man opened a car door for me might have been my very first date. Ah, well, things change, life goes on.