Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1)

The BBQ Pit
6021

I’m looking at an FBI report with figures similar (but not identical) to yours, but it also has
Firearms, type not stated 1,611
With rifles, shotguns, and “other guns” all broken out separately, it seems fair to conclude that most of the “type not stated” were handguns, no?
… And the numbers are similar enough, year-to-year, that your “a different year” hypothesis is rejected.

So your “5000” should actually have been “about 8000”; correct? And here’s another government document (for 2013 instead of 2012) that states
Firearm homicides: Number of deaths: 11,208

The FBI reports 13,000 homicides with about 9000 by firearm. CDC reports 16,000 homicides with 11,000 by firearms. It might be interesting to understand the difference. But none of these numbers are anywhere near 5000.

But whether 5000, 8000, or 11000, what’s the difference, right? One side will characterize any of these numbers as “very rare”; the other side as “much too common.”

But I get very annoyed when incorrect statistics are prattled about on message boards, hoping that no one will check. If I remember a number as “6500”, am too lazy to Google, and the smaller the number the better it suits my case, I’ll write “less than 7000” or “about 6500.” I won’t pull a Sam Stone, write “6000” and accuse the one who corrects me of being a “nit-picker.” Writing “5000” is right out.

Since we’re in the Pit, I’ll just come out and say it: If you don’t know a number, just stifle your impudence and shut up!

6022

That speaks less to tackling an armed assailant as a preferred strategy, and more to the comparative rarity of armed bystanders. If I happened to be carrying and a mass shooting occurred, I sure as hell wouldn’t forgo using my gun to try to tackle him instead.

6023

So you think. Professionals beg to differ.

6024

This is a lie! If there had been a good 11 year old with a gun, they would have stopped him!

6025

Nope, there are zip guns, sawed off rifles, etc, all which could come into that category. Since the FBI specifically said 6,371 of those attributed to handguns then there’s 6371. So no, not 8000 or whatever number you were thinking of when you said “This is a very different number than my source shows.” since 6371 is hardly “very different” than “about 5000”.

We’re talking how many **handgun murders. **Not “Firearm homicides” which includes all form of firearms. Or “11,000 by firearms”, which again includes all form of firearms. So, no none of those numbers are anywhere near 5000 since all of those numbers include other guns deaths and other types of gun murders other than by handgun.

I stated “*about *5000 handgun murders per year.” Indeed, there’s 6,371 which to me is not far from my “about”.

And, far off from whatever " very different number than my source shows." you had since you couldn’t be arsed to even come up with a estimate or a counter cite. If you don’t know a number, just stifle your impudence and shut up!

6026

hey fuckface, he did cite his stats. Every estimate from every source shows that your number is bullshit.

However, if you want to propose that long guns are the bulk of the problem, be my guest! The gun strokers won’t like you very much, but then again, you must be use to that sort of thing.

6027

Woman pulls her gun to shoot at an escaping shoplifter:

6028

Which is a goalpost move. If you’re comparing smoking deaths with gun deaths in a discussion about the effectiveness of gun control, it’s perfectly reasonably to note the effect that restrictions on smoking have had.

I am aware that many of the gun rights arguments boil down to:

  1. I want a gun;
  2. The Constitution says I can have a gun; and
  3. Neener neener neener;

and much of the rest is fantasy and rationalization, but that doesn’t address the fact that making access to guns more restricted would reduce gun deaths, regardless of what the Constitution says.

Speaking of fantasy: I note you’re ignoring the point in the article about why the Heroic Gunslinger scenario is at odds with the reality of a real gunfight and why having amateurs fire away would likely cause more havoc, not less.

6029

Wrong again, fool. Obviously you couldn’t be bothered to click my link. It would have taken you 15 seconds to see what I excerpt below (note the “other guns” category), and which renders your response imbecilic, yet instead of investing those 15 seconds to educate yourself, you spent a minute composing insults. What an arrogant, idiot, asshole.



Murder Victims by Weapon, 2009-2013
Weapons                  2009          2010          2011          2012          2013
Total                   13,752        13,164        12,795        12,888        12,253
Total firearms:          9,199         8,874         8,653         8,897         8,454
Handguns                 6,501         6,115         6,251         6,404         5,782
Rifles                     351           367           332           298           285
Shotguns                   423           366           362           310           308
Other guns                  96            93            97           116           123
Firearms, type not stated  1,828       1,933         1,611         1,769         1,956

Stated simply, for simple-minded people, your “sawed-off rifles” or whatever, would show up as “other guns” (or more likely “rifles”) and not as “type not stated.” I’d guess even an imbecile could have figured that out in two seconds by glancing at the table. But not our dear Dr Deth, who makes up numbers, and doesn’t even know how to place the mouse cursor over a link and push a button. Thanks for helping to confirm my observation that gun nuts tend to be arrogant pretentious dolts.

I suppose it’s conceivable that you did click the link, but were too stupid to even understand the above table. In that case, accept my apology … and pity.

6030

Thank god there was a good guy with a gun.

6031

A good guy with a cellphone camera to take a picture of the perp and his license plate might have been more helpful.

6032

All too true.

Unfortunately, no. It’s the price someone else pays for the gun nuts’ freedoms.

They get the freedom, someone else gets stuck with the (lethal) bill.

And this is moral, how?

6033

And she’s just as dead, either way.

6034

That would do nothing to resolve the sense of moral outrage arising from a thief getting away. It also wouldn’t stoke our collective sense of manly efficacy.

6035

It would have been a real riot if some other ‘good guy with a gun,’ seeing a woman shooting at a car that wasn’t visibly endangering anyone, started shooting at the woman. And then another ‘good guy with a gun’ coulda started shooting at him.

OK, not funny IRL, and I hope it never happens. But the way our gun laws are going, it’s hard to believe it’s not just a matter of time.

6036

Some people would like to see as many citizens armed as possible. It seems inevitable that that could easily lead to the exact type of situation you’re describing. And of course she could have hit some innocent while attempting to fire at the fleeing vehicle, or caused the drive to lost control and hit somebody.

I posted a news story earlier in this thread where a “good guy with a gun” came upon a carjacking in progress, fired at the carjackers, and accidentally shot the owner of the car - the victim - in the head.

6037

As a fun story: a few years back my wife was riding to work on a bus. En route the bus stopped and a couple of questionable young men got on who refused to pay the fare. At the driver’s attempts to eject them, the young men dragged the driver out and punched him several times and then ran away. The police were called but the CCTV onboard was not clear enough to identify the men (which raises a separate question about why they even bother having CCTV that only registers “vague moving blobs”, but let’s not digress from this digression).

However, my wife happens to have in her bag a digital camera that also took video, and she recorded the whole scene. When the police turned up she presented herself to them with camera in hand and showed them the video complete with close-ups of the perps’ faces. They transferred the video to a device of their own, said that they recognized the men in question and went off to arrest them. Justice served.

Would that situation have been improved by having a gun instead of a camera? Would that be true even if the men had also had guns?

6038

He’s 11, fer chrissakes. A lot of kids that age still wet their pants when they’re scared. I find it difficult to believe that 11 yr old can *appreciate *the consequences of his actions. The kid should do time but I am not ready to write off his entire life yet.

The adult who gave the kid access to the gun should do time.

6039

I agree. Why do we never hear who owned the gun, or what happens to them? My suspicion is it is because nothing ever happens to them. “It was a tragic event, they are being punished enough” is the usual justification.

6040

Another “law-abiding citizen” who was sure it could never happen to him. And another, and another …