I don’t know if that’s being fair, though. No firearm should ever be carried half-cocked. This would be like putting a stick in a Glock trigger guard and then dropping it. Then blaming the discharge on the “drop”, rather than the “stick in the trigger guard”.
Then, to be quite honest, I don’t give a flying fuck how well guns are designed and how often they break or not. If reality is, “guns are liable to go off at any time because they are routinely handled by fuckheads” then that’s kind of a flaw in the system. Gee, it didn’t “go off:” because it hit the floor. It went off because the fuckhead didn’t perform the right ritual with it. Great. It’s honestly not a distinction I want to waste a lot of time on. It went off and someone now has an extra hole in their body.
Great. Then say that next time instead of, “It’s amazing how often we’re told, “guns don’t just go off when they’re dropped” in spite of all the times they seem to do exactly that.”
Well, folks. I appreciate this thread for the factual information presented. Guns ARE dangerous and there are more than 15 functional firearms in my house, with three in my family having unlimited access. Nothing better than to regularly show and teach the people in the house how to handle them correctly, and stowing them away safely when there’s no need for it. But frankly I’m more worried about teenagers who drive.
Nah, I’ll continue to post the way I want. If you want a deep technical discussion of guns and what modern marvels they are, then maybe a Pit thread where people come to blow off steam isn’t the right venue for you.
I have actually observed a real doozy: the British Sten gun. Those not familiar can google image it and note the lateral position of the magazine relative to the gun. One was dropped in a test facility from 3 feet. It went off full auto with a full magazine while resting on the end of the mag and the buttstock. It was pivoting counter-clockwise as it was firing, like a lethal garden hose.
That’s fine. I’ll just add that to the growing list of exceptions the next time someone tells me “Guns NEVER go off when dropped”.
Well, if you want to blow off steam with no regard for actual facts, then maybe a message board devoted to fighting ignorance isn’t the right venue for you. It’s entirely possible to base your rants around facts and reality rather than what seems to be true or what feels more comforting.
“You people just want to ignore facts. Also, any examples that contradict my position TOTALLY DON’T COUNT.”
That would be a fair criticism if you presented an example that contradicted the statement. Please provide an actual example, and I’ll concede the point. Don’t make up a hypothetical. Actually show me an example of a modern (made in the last half century) firearm accidentally discharging from being dropped. Laboratory testing of the P320 do not count. These were recalled and corrected. If, as you seem to imply, it was acceptable for guns to fire when dropped, then the P320 performance would not have been such a big deal.
Articles like that most recent one are not an example of a firearm discharging from being dropped. It’s an example of an ignorant news reporter repeating the “story” of a man facing potentially criminal chargers. Show me an expert who concluded after an investigation that a firearm did such a thing.
What’s with the all CAPS? Does anything I’ve posted come off as yelling?
Here’s an article trying to churn up real-life examples of such a thing. Of the 4 real-life cases, three of them include old, antiquated firearms. Hell, they had to go all the way back to Wyatt Earp to find an example. The fourth example is an unknown firearm and the only source of information surrounding the incident is the lady who owned the gun. Someone was shot in the leg from her negligence, so of course she’s going to say “it fired when it hit the ground”. Who knows, maybe it did. I doubt it. It has more of a chance of being true if she was carrying a 100 year old firearm two of the other examples.
I’m not seeing other examples of all the times they seem to do exactly that.
Here’s an article trying to churn up real-life examples of such a thing. Of the 4 real-life cases, three of them include old, antiquated firearms. Hell, they had to go all the way back to Wyatt Earp to find an example. The fourth example is an unknown firearm and the only source of information surrounding the incident is the lady who owned the gun. Someone was shot in the leg from her negligence, so of course she’s going to say “it fired when it hit the ground”. Who knows, maybe it did. I doubt it. It has more of a chance of being true if she was carrying a 100 year old firearm like in two of the other examples.
I’m not seeing other examples of all the times they seem to do exactly that.
OK, I’ll concede that it’s rare for a gun to literally discharge when it strikes the ground. So we have a few possibilities, in roughly increasing order of likelihood by my WAG:
- The handler dropped an old gun and it discharged when it hit the ground
- The handler was carrying the gun half-cocked (or whatever), dropped it, and it discharged when it hit the ground
- The handler dropped a gun, and it discharged when it the handler clumsily tried to catch it
- The handler dropped a gun, and it discharged when it the handler clumsily tried to pick it up
Great. These temperamental beasts go bang when dropped for a number of reasons, the least likely of which is the literal impact on the ground. This is a critical, critical point. It doesn’t go bang when it hits the ground (except if it’s old or the handler is carrying it in an unsafe manner that no one on earth would ever think of doing; it goes bang when it hits the user’s hand on its way to the ground.
dupe
If we have thus established that the lion’s share of existing weapons are mechanically disinclined to discharge by means other that a person specifically causing them to do so, and yet we still have accidental discharges, what is solution can we apply to significantly reduce accidental discharges?
Somebody posted a photo in r/Sacramento of a line of people waiting to get into a gun shop in Sacramento. Looks like they’re eagerly anticipating an apocalypse.
Show me where, at any point, I implied “it was acceptable for guns to fire when dropped”. Of course I don’t think that’s acceptable and have never stated or implied that. Why would you infer that?
It was for emphasis. As in “Show me an example of a modern firearm accidentally discharging from being dropped - but the P320 TOTALLY DOESN’T COUNT”.
An example I mentioned earlier in the thread is the Cobra derringer which is sometimes carried half-cocked (for reasons) and can easily accidentally discharge if dropped. Is this unsafe practice? Yes - but that doesn’t nullify my point, even with some bumf about putting a “stick” in it. If anything, it qualifies those stories for this thread even moreso.
The point I’m trying to make and you seem determined to miss is that the absolutist position - that guns never go off when dropped - is false. If you were arguing that it was extremely rare for them to do so and only under certain conditions - sure, I’d be right on board with that. And indeed this is the position that Defensive Indifference has mostly just set out.
But nonetheless we have been told by many gun rights advocates on this board that it never happens - often with an additional helping of “It’s just ignorant gun-grabber propaganda!”. Which is bullshit, because sometimes - rarely, sure, but sometimes - it happens.
And whether they go off when they hit the ground or when the handler reaches for them – big whoop. They go off when they’re dropped. Guns are death machines that go off when they’re dropped frequently enough to be a problem, and we let any fuckhead saunter about with one.
That’s it exactly. If there was anyone in this world I would have trusted with a gun, it would have been this guy. And still he managed to do that.