I would not be so sure anymore. People are more protective and less forgiving then they were ten or twenty years ago.
The whole point is that children need to be held accountable for their actions.
Let the property owner decide if “this is just something kids do” and not make it a “universal practice” for all. If I thought it was okay I would never have went to their house and complained.
I am not a tight ass bitch. I have two kids, 20 and 18. I not only raised them but I have had many of their friends over in those years and they knew what I expected of them. I was fairly leanant and tried to be fair but kids can be irresponsible and it is up to the parents or the people that are responsible for them to make sure they own up to those mistakes. If they don’t then they are not going to learn that what they did was wrong.
Even if YOU don’t think is wrong it may be wrong in someone else eyes. It was their property after all.
More times than not a simple apology and a promise to never do it again goes a long way.
Later when they have grown up a bit we can all remember back when, laugh and can admit “Hey, I did it as a kid too”. I have had many good times talking to my kids and remembering back to some stuff they pulled but they are grown now. I certainly would not have had slapped them on the back ten years ago and said “HAHA that was funny when you smashed Mr. Johnsons pumpkin last night”.
Smashing pumpkins (heh band name … really) was always transgressive. It was never considered “okay” by parents, and if you got caught at it you would certainly be in trouble. That was part of the point.
The notion that the kids would ASK IN ADVANCE whether or not it was okay to smash pumpkins defies reality, however. The whole point of such an act is to engage in a bit of naughty defiance against “the authorities” - parents, school, everyone who teaches kids what to do and to be disciplined, accountable and mature persons.
The point is that the “defiance” was limited in scope. It was “defiance”, sure, but within the context of tradition. It was, if you like, a more or less “safe” defiance. A kid could do it and then go back to obedience the next day. Some kids of course act out in ways that are not within the context of tradition and are less easy to overlook … but the vast majority go on to become responsible adults. The sort, in fact, to own houses, carve pumpkins of their own and to curse the rowdy undisciplined neighbourhood hoodlum kids who smash their pumpkins.
It isn’t “people” who have changed - it is us. We grew up. “We” are now “they” and have forgotten the sort of confused punk-ass kids at least some of us used to be. We think the world has changed and kids aren’t what they used to be … a refrain that is surely as old as human history.
Probably the best action, but the alternative would be to tell him to remove his stuff, and if he doesn’t, hide the things he leaves on your side and when he asks about them tell him they were on your side, you assumed he was giving them to you so you got rid of the things you didn’t want.
I don’t think anyone has suggested asking in advance. Rather, that the property owner has the right to react as he/she sees fit, including getting angry and going to the parents and complaining.
But if it is defiance, then it is entirely proper for them to get in trouble for actions. It’s called consequences. Sure, it’s “safe” defiance, in that it is a lot less harmful than setting the dog on fire (to use someone else’s example), but it is still a violation of property and it is still wrong and it still deserves punishment. Like grounding the kid, or taking away his Nintendo, or making him go over and apologize and rake the leaves in the neighbor’s yard as penance. It’s okay for parents later to reminisce with their children what little snots they were when they were little, but at the time you can’t blow it off as “kids will be kids”, you punish them for the little violations, so they learn about right and wrong.
So the reason is “It’s Halloween”. and the response is “it’s still wrong”.
I’m not saying that people have no right to complain. I’m pointing out that this anger - the “kids these days” reaction - is hardly some new thing.
I think you are missing my point. I would fully agree with all of that.
These kids are not here in this thread and posting - my reactions are to the posters posting here and now.
It is certainly appropriate to punish kids for defiance - indeed, defiance would be pointless, would not be defiance, if it were not for the possibility of punishment.
However, it is one thing to punish - that’s just a parent’s duty - and another to adopt the sort of attitude you see on display in this thread (and more generally on many threads on this site) - the level of real hatred I see that, jokes and all, seems so totally disproportionate and downright sad. Like some people have forgotten that they were once kids.
And if he doesn’t WHACK him
I like the poison ivy idea. It’s not obvious, they won’t know what it was until it’s already got them, and there is plausible deniability.
I agree with your post on a whole but as I stated the “heathen” was known for other activities that are beyond the scope of “defiance”. I don’t think breaking windows in houses and cars is “tradition”. The fact that his guardian aka grandma never made him own up creates a situation past obedience the next day. They blew it off like it was nothing. He did not get in trouble and was not confronted with it.
I agree that kids get into shit and more times than not they later become fine adults BUT some do not and it is the responsibilty of the parents or guardians to do everything they can to prevent that, especially for kids that are on the edge.
Can every kid be saved? I really wish that was the case. Sometimes all the love, support and discipline in the world won’t save a child from doing wrong but more parents should try and not fall back on the “I don’t have time” Or “whatEVER, I did that when I was ten too” stick.
I have seen the kids friends get a two day grounding for a broken plate but a blow off on stolen money. WTF? A broken plate is an accident or I would think it was but stolen money is not. Its like parents have a warped sense of what it right and wrong verses what is a burden to their own personal time.
The plate made them get off of their asses for a minute to clean it up, so that required a punishment, but the money was, well just gone, so no use crying over it. Go figure?
I was a kid once and did wrong. My kids did wrong. We all did wrong. None of us were perfect angels but I challenge anyone to think of a time they were not ashamed by something we did in life as a kid or hell as an adult. The fact is we learned not to do it again because at at least ONE time in our life a parent or grandparent or uncle, aunt, teacher, boss etc. made us see or feel that we did something wrong. If not then maybe your own conscience got to you. Sometimes it may not always be in words but actions.
The “single parent so they get a pass” thing has way to much wiggle room for my taste and I was one. Is it hard? Fuck yes it is. Do some kids get less supervision, you bet. That does not give them a pass when it comes to being a responsible parent. It may get you more compassion and understanding but it should not be a “get out of watching your kids card”.
I think some people remember they were once good kids and have little tolerance for the bad ones. I think it is the frustration of not being able to effectively do anything to stop their destructive actions. The parent won’t parent, the condo association can’t, or won’t, do anything. The cops would probably laugh at you if you called them. You can’t sue the kids and putting them in a wood-chipper, while probably the best long term solution, is frowned upon. All the OP has to look forward to is more smashed garden. A completely frustrating situation for anyone.
Next time fill the pumpkin with cement. That will show them.
OP, can you put up some sort of wire or something to keep them out? And what about a sign or something that says “please don’t ruin my garden.” Yeah, they can still ruin both, but they’re another layer of defence that the kids have to willfully ignore and they can’t plead ignorant.
I smashed my share of pumpkins, “back in the day”. However, I still managed to grow up semi-normal (whatever normal is). It sounds more like the OP’s problem is that these kids do it year round without let up. I also get the hint that their parents just don’t care. That’s not just a Halloween prank. It’s not a one night in the year thing. It’s a constant problem. That’s different. Sure, kids will be kids. They do weird things, and then don’t know why they did it (Bill Cosby spoke the truth about the Brain Damage People). But someone has to set the limits.
If the OP plants poison ivy in the space how is he going to be able to tend the other plants? It doesn’t sound like it’s big enough that he can set the poison way off to one side or something.
Not that I support what the kids are doing of course.*
This from a guy who, as a kid, along with his brothers and cousins, stood at the end of the driveway and threw gravel instead rocks at passing cars 'cause we was raised up with good, common sense.
I figured they were ultimately jokes, but serious in a “world-where-we-can-infect-kids-with-poison-ivy-to-teach-them-lesson” sort of way, so I thought I’d ask.
And I’m tired so I’ve kind of forgotten what the accumulation of posts here actually meant.
Not a kid like that I wasn’t and neither were my three brothers! We weren’t even allowed to go into anyone else’s yard without permission, much less go about stomping on plants, etc. It’s like SomeUserName said - far too many parents are using their “get out of watching your kids card”.
ChocoLax. Extra strength. Wrappings changed. Left hanging at your front door with a note of “Please don’t take this delicious candy, for OP only”. And a towel to muffle your laughter every time you hear the toilet flush next door.
