[QUOTE=Captain Carrot]
Or, y’know, an indication that the OP’s pissed that this counselor repeatedly tried to diagnose a serious condition that the OP did not, in fact, have.
[/QUOTE]
Or, y’know, maybe you’ve been whooshed. 
[QUOTE=Shodan]
Actually, the flag I saw was this;Because when you are discussing substance abuse, most people don’t think of drinking tea as “the last time you had something to drink”.
[/QUOTE]
I think context has a lot to do with this. I probably would, because I very rarely drink alcohol–the idea that drinking=alcohol isn’t something that would automatically come to mind. Especially if you don’t have a problem that you’re trying to deny, your mouth can run faster than your brain and you’ll give an answer before you realize you misunderstood the question.
Geez, suddenly I’m very thankful the only question I kept getting asked was “are you suicidal”.
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
However, if that was one of the first questions in the substance abuse section, I can see how a person could construe that the doctor wanted to know if they had ingested any food or liquid that day. I think we need a bit more info on the situation before we can call the OP a liar.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this, too, particularly if it wasn’t explicit that the doctor was asking about substance abuse. If it were me, I would probably have assumed they were about to take a blood test.
Too late.
[QUOTE=tdn]
Or, y’know, maybe you’ve been whooshed.
[/QUOTE]
That’s what I thought it was supposed to be, until I read the last sentence:
[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
<snip>Looking at it from the outside, can’t you see why your counselor is worried about your problem and your very safety?
[/QUOTE]
Faking concern isn’t a wooshworthy cause, IMHO.
Yesterday was payday in my company. Today I could smell beer on the breath of about 80% of the people I talked to. I was a bit tired last night, tonight however I’ll be out on the lash. The only problem will be finding a bar that isn’t packed to the rafters.
Welcome to Ireland 
[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
Let’s get to the facts here:
-
Denial is a major warning sign of a problem. You exhibit multiple and adamant instances of denial in this thread. The denial impulse is so strong that you had to announce it loudly to a group of people you have never met in person. That is clearly an issue.
-
You keep large quantities of alcohol horded in your house (i.e. “There’s a shelf full of beer in the fridge.”)
-
You are proud of the fact that you can stay away from it. “I can stop any time I want to.”
-
One day you will fall off the wagon and consume all of them at once due to built up addictive tension. Acute alcohol poising is likely accompanied by coma and maybe even death. How long that will be from now, we can’t know for sure. It could be weeks or maybe even months.
Looking at it from the outside, can’t you see why your counselor is worried about your problem and your very safety?
[/QUOTE]
By this logic every single person on earth, including those who’ve never touched a drink in their lives, is an alcoholic. “Never drank, eh? And proud of that, are we? Well it’s a coma for you Sunny Jim!”
There are two pssible answers to the question “Are you an Alcoholic?”
1.) Yes, in which case you’re an alcoholic.
2.)No, in which case you’re an alcoholic in denial.
Threads like this’un always make me yearn for the sage advise of UncleBeer.
[QUOTE=Shodan]
Actually, the flag I saw was this;Because when you are discussing substance abuse, most people don’t think of drinking tea as “the last time you had something to drink”.
I expect that the counselor thought you were telling the truth when you said, “about an hour ago”, and that you were talking about alcohol. Especially since you have a fairly long series of excuses for your drinking.
Maybe you are telling the truth about your drinking - I don’t know, and have no way to be sure. But you don’t come across as if you are. If you don’t mind my saying so.
Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]
At the time, I was filling out paperwork and answering her questions, so I was a bit distracted by the need to write, listen, and speak at the same time. We hadn’t been discussing substance abuse prior to that question, we had been talking about my medical history like diabetes and heart disease so alcohol wasn’t the first thing that came to mind.
While I appreciate the concern, this interview was the 4th such interview in the past 3 months and the 3rd with this program. Only this counselor seemed convinced I’m a substance abuser, so I’ll take the 3 other counselor’s opinions instead.
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia]
By this logic every single person on earth, including those who’ve never touched a drink in their lives, is an alcoholic. “Never drank, eh? And proud of that, are we? Well it’s a coma for you Sunny Jim!”
There are two pssible answers to the question “Are you an Alcoholic?”
1.) Yes, in which case you’re an alcoholic.
2.)No, in which case you’re an alcoholic in denial.
[/QUOTE]
I would think that saying Yes would mean that you are in denial and are not an alcoholic. It would fit the logic of #2 better.
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia]
There are two pssible answers to the question “Are you an Alcoholic?”
1.) Yes, in which case you’re an alcoholic.
2.)No, in which case you’re an alcoholic in denial.
[/QUOTE]
or 3.) I don’t know, what have you got?
Dude, I had a shelf full of hard lemonade (oooh, so risky) in my fridge from when my friend and I were watching movies. The fact that I had it there for so long (slowly dwindling–I offer it to another guy whenever he’s over) shows that I don’t drink because I’ve pretty much never had alcohol when alone. In fact, pretty much everyone I know has some “stockpile” of alcohol at their house. And most of us can stop whenever we want. We’re all alcoholics?
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
That’s what I thought it was supposed to be, until I read the last sentence:
Faking concern isn’t a wooshworthy cause, IMHO.
[/QUOTE]
It will take Shagnasty to elucidate his own post, but he’s a smart guy. I think he gets it.
But he raises a good point – If someone has a strong idea about someone else’s life, they will tend to collect evidence to support that idea. Almost anything said could be twisted to fit.
[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
or 3.) I don’t know, what have you got?
[/QUOTE]
or 4.) I’ll have a scotch and soda.
We had a similar thing happen with my Dad over Christmas. He was hospitalized for what was eventually diagnosed as an anxiety attack. At the time, the first diagnosis was that he was an alcoholic and was going through withdrawal symptoms.
They did a ton of blood work at the time, and he’d had a complete physical in October. Neither showed any signs of alcohol abuse. When they asked in the ER if he drank, he answered truthfully that he drank about 4 ounces of brandy a day. When he was admitted to the hospital, his chart said a pint of alcohol a day. When that changed, we don’t know.
We told the doctors several times that he’s never shown signs of alcoholism, that he has drank 1 or 2 brandies a day for his whole life, and if anything, he’s been cutting down lately, not increasing. None of this mattered; he was a drunk.
So… either all of us are in denial, or the doctors didn’t know what was going on and lunged at an easy answer.
[QUOTE=Athena]
So… either all of us are in denial,
[/QUOTE]
I’m not.
[QUOTE=RedRosesForMe]
We hadn’t been discussing substance abuse prior to that question
[/QUOTE]
You weren’t?
[QUOTE=RedRosesForMe]
One of the first questions I was asked is if I need substance abuse counseling.
[/quote]
Well, sure - I have been thru enough medical evaluations to recognize that this is something they ask - if you are being prepped for surgery or something. I have also been evaluated for substance abuse, and they did ask “when was the last time you used”.
What I mean is, if they want to know “what did you have to eat or drink today”, they ask “did you have breakfast” or “what have you eaten today” or something like that. They don’t ask “when was the last time you had something to drink”. That means, in my experience, something other than “what have you had to eat or drink today”.
I want to be careful here - I am not calling anyone a liar, which would be a violation of the rules (outside the Pit). I am saying that, rightly or wrongly, she isn’t coming across very convincingly. Saying that they hadn’t talked about substance abuse at all coming after the OP saying it was one of the first things the counselor mentioned is something I considered. Another is a general sense of “the lady doth protest too much”. There are always five or six sentences justifying her drinking with every mention of the topic.
Whether or not she is being truthful, I have no way of knowing, as I mentioned. I’m willing to take her word for it. I am just trying to express why I can see that the counselor might not think the same, especially since
Regards,
Shodan
[QUOTE=Shodan]
You Another is a general sense of “the lady doth protest too much”. There are always five or six sentences justifying her drinking with every mention of the topic.
[/QUOTE]
Well, she was being put on the defensive. The counselor assumed out of nowhere that her drinking was a daily thing and a coping strategy, when the OP had already said that it wasn’t.
[QUOTE=tdn]
But he raises a good point – If someone has a strong idea about someone else’s life, they will tend to collect evidence to support that idea. Almost anything said could be twisted to fit.
[/QUOTE]
That is the truth.
My sister, who the family thinks IS an alcoholic - doesn’t admit to ever having been diagnosed as one - she’s always diagnosed with something else - depression, “co-dependency” (which isn’t even a valid diagnosis). Because she was physically and sexually abused as an adult by an abusive boyfriend, she was told by more than one therapist that she “learned” as a child that was OK - and must have been abused as a child. If she didn’t remember it, that was because it was so horrific that she has repressed it. (I think she HAS been diagnosed as an alcoholic, but lies to us about it).
Get a counselor who sees everything as substance abuse, get a substance abuse “you must be hiding it” diagnosis. Get one who thinks everything can be traced to depression, get depression. Many therapists are professionals, who take the time and effort to come up with as accurate a diagnosis as possible - and there are a lot of hacks out there who think their patents are lying (and, its therapy, a lot of them are to start out - but often not about what you think they are lying about) and have a lot of their own bias in diagnosis.
[QUOTE=Shodan]
You weren’t?
[/QUOTE]
Come on, dude, it’s obvious (to me, at least) that the quote reads:
[QUOTE=RR4Me]
We hadn’t been discussing substance abuse [immediately] prior to that question
[/QUOTE]
Since you conveniently left out :
[QUOTE=RR4Me]
But, after a series of other questions, we get to the in-depth substance abuse questions.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Shodan]
I want to be careful here - I am not calling anyone a liar, which would be a violation of the rules (outside the Pit). I am saying that, rightly or wrongly, she isn’t coming across very convincingly.
[/QUOTE]
Well, since you brought up the rule, you’re skating about as close to that line as possible, IMHO:
[QUOTE=Shodan]
Maybe you are telling the truth about your drinking - I don’t know, and have no way to be sure. But you don’t come across as if you are.
[/QUOTE]
Saying, “You come across as a liar,” is about as close to calling somebody a liar as you can get without saying, “You are a liar.”