Well, that’s a good point. But it wasn’t quite out of the blue. That was right after RedRosesForMe said that she had had something to drink “an hour ago”, and then quickly amended it to say that she meant tea. Which, as mentioned, sounds a little fishy.
But of course tdn could be quite right - the first mistake made the counselor’s mind up, and the counselor then interpreted everything subsequent as proof of alcoholism.
And I should have said this right off the bat - RedRosesForMe, my best wishes and prayers go out to you for your recovery.
No. The first few questions she asked were, “Why are you here?” (I’ve been struggling with depression and want to get back on medication and get counseling) and “Do you need substance abuse counseling?”
Then we went on to all sorts of other questions, like SSN and birthdate, have you been diagnosed with a mental illness before, then a whole series of medical questions before we got to the substance abuse again. So, no, I don’t consider that discussing substance abuse prior to that question.
Good on you, RedRoses, for standing up to the counselor. I belong to a couple of mailing lists of ex-AA members, some members of which have been railroaded into substance-abuse counseling when some “counselor” decided they were “in denial” or “lying” about their drinking, whether they admitted to drinking or not.
Unfortunately, there are a couple of issues at play. The first is that it’s not unusual for counselors to be in recovery themselves, which generally means they’re biased in favor of diagnosis of substance abuse. The second is that diagnosis of substance abuse is often so subjective that such a counselor often applies a confirmation bias in diagnosing the client, instead of going on the facts reported by the client.
I will also note that the 20 Questions from AA are worse than useless. I just went through them and could honestly answer “yes” to at least four of them, even though I’ve abstained from alcohol for almost 15 years. However, according to the brochure, answering “yes” to one of them means I may be an alcoholic and I need help. In fact, as a thought experiment, my college psych professor had us do this, and the people who have never had a drink or used a drug could answer “yes” to at least one question. Scary.
Good luck. If you have any questions or want to chat, PM me.
There ain’t nothing worse than the Fanaticism and Zeal of the Convert.
Addicts (Sex, Alcohol, Drugs), Political, Religious. Doesn’t really matter. Been through it with all of them.
Had three drinks at an office party. First time I’d had a drink in something like 2-3 months. No matter, office Zealot decides to ‘confront’ me about my alcoholism, while I’m trapped in his car on the freeway. Go fuck yourself fool, that was the most alcohol I’d had in several years, I hate the taste and effects of alcohol and I’m not in any way addicted to the stuff. Just because you’ve had problems with it doesn’t make you the Perfect Savior.
Went through it with a former drug addict. Asked me if I’d ever tried cocaine. Yup, once when I was 18, never had any interest since. But there in my mid 30’s, or 17-18 years removed from the ONE TIME, this clown decided to tell me that I had a DRUG PROBLEM and that I needed help. Of course, he’s just the guy to help me out!
Another good example of this is the Baldwin guy on Celebrity Rehab. Comes in with 9 months of sobriety and tries to be the great voice of reason and salvation. One week later he’s finding any excuse to get out the door. He’s made his impact, he’s painted himself as a Savior, now it’s time to move on before his own chickens come home to roost.
Refusing to self identify as an alcoholic does not make one “in denial.” I am not an alcoholic. Am I in denial? Of course not – the last drink I had was about four months ago when I had one beer at my own birthday party. Before that? Who knows? It was clear to me that the OP wasn’t “announcing his denial impulse loudly to a group of people he has never met in person” – he was announcing his frustration at a misdiagnosis by a counselor with a clear bias.
I have a cabinet full of various liquors, and a few beers in the fridge. The beers are for the friends, and the liquor’s mine in case I feel like drinking one day. My parents keep a shelf full of beers, as well, and they’re not alcoholic. Hell, I can’t remember the last time I went to someone’s house and they didn’t have alcohol somewhere in the kitchen.
I’m proud of the fact that I can stay away from it, too. I think you’re seriously reaching with your internet diagnosis. Millions of people can say “I can stop any time I want to” and be ABSOLUTELY right. Being confident and aware of your own limitations isn’t denial.
Knowing absolutely nothing of the OP’s history, I’m disturbed at your perceived ability to make this diagnosis based on a message board post. What “wagon”? The OP hasn’t given any indication that he’s got an alcohol abuse problem he’s recovering from.
It’s this line here that makes me wonder if you’re whooshing. I hope so.
Forgive me if this is a better suited reply for the Pit – I tried to keep it tame, but having gone through a few psychological analyses myself, I know the frustration the OP feels at having a counselor with an agenda.
Good for you, RedRoses, for having the cajones to take your wellbeing into your own hands and seeking help when you think you need it. I agree with Dangerosa about the proper rebuttal to this “analysis” being “I do not think you have done a thorough enough evaluation to make a substance abuse diagnosis.”
Make sure you do file a complaint, even if you never have to see this person again. I’m sure one of the last things most people with depression want to hear is that they’re a diagnosed alcoholic, to boot, when it simply isn’t the case.
BTW, I filed a complaint against a therapist. I was during my sister’s (the maybe-maybenot alcoholic) stint at rehab. My sister - whose therapist there did tell us she wasn’t an alcoholic but “co-dependent” (what the HELL she was doing in REHAB if she wasn’t an alcoholic was a mystery to us - however, she and the therapist were fairly convinced that she’d been sexually abused as a child by pretty much every male relative except my father she had - something that makes no sense to the rest of us - even the timing for what she claims happened is wrong - we didn’t live in the same state as these people then - she never MET them as a small child) had us for family counseling. We get to the AA twelve step forgiveness part, where my role is to say “when you don’t stay in contact with the family, I feel hurt. I feel that it becomes my responsibility to fill in.” Anyway, I say all of three sentences (my parents and other sister had a lot more to say - my alcoholic sister is pretty peripheral to my own life). After which her therapist - who I have only ever said these three sentences to, recommends I come in for a week of intensive “codependancy” therapy.
I looked at her, shaking with rage, and said “May I just say “no thank you”” I then filed a complaint with the state board for her being highly unethical, unprofessional and irresponsible in suggesting intensive therapy for someone whose mental health history was completely unknown to her after a mere three sentences. I wanted to let loose right there with both barrels, but didn’t think it would be best for other people in group therapy to accuse the woman who’d been working with them for 4 weeks (and $50k) of being a sham.
She left the job shortly thereafter.
My post wasn’t meant to be taken literally. It was a parody of the logic that goes into the logic of alcohol abuse questions. There is no way out. I am in fact a recovering alcoholic and I take that very, very seriously. However, the threshold that these types of questions ask is set ridiculously low. It would be great to nip problem drinkers and future alcoholics in the bud with such tests but the false positive rate is absurd and makes them pointless.
I don’t think people that design these things or counsel on them understand the true depth of alcoholic behavior. I have met some that do but they were recovering addicts or alcoholics themselves. The layers go so much deeper and more troublesome than having a six pack on most weekend nights. There are many stripes of alcoholics and I have known examples of all of them but such inquiries are useless and might as well be coming from an automated computer script (Commodore 64).
The denial questions are especially troublesome because they don’t make logical sense and there is no easy way out. It is a “Did you stop beating your wife?” type of question.
My post was just a demonstration of the absurd types of thought processes and procedures that can be used to “prove” that someone is an alcoholic. It is illogical and inappropriate. I sympathize with the OP.
My mom is a teetotaller. In the 30+ years I’ve been alive, I saw her have one glass of wine when I was 8 years old when my grandparents brought a favourite bottle back from Scotland. Then in my 20s, my family went to a well-known Mexican restaurant. We talked about how perfect beer is with the particular meal we ordered, and my mom asked the waitress if she could get order half of a half-pint of “Whatever beer my son is drinking.” We were gobsmacked.
And yet, she still has a reasonably well-stocked liquor cabinet. At least enough to be able to offer a brandy or Scotch to guests. Last year we had to throw out several bottles of wine (cheap table wine, never meant to have aged, and had turned to vinegar) and some of the liquers that looked… “wrong”.
Having a generous amount of alcohol in the house doesn’t make you an alcoholic anymore than having an enormous set of pots and pans and a cuisinart makes me a chef.
You gotta love these counsellors…
A friend of mine was sent to one by our employer, many years ago…
Counsellor: Do you have any interest in guns or the military?
Friend: (truthfully) No.
The report didn’t say he had no interest in guns or the military, it said, “Mr X denies having any interest in guns or the military.”
Be careful, RedRoses, alcohol abuse can lower your sperm count, too; but I suppose your denial issues won’t let you worry about that, either.
Seriously, if you think there’s a chance that anyone might believe this clown, you might want to think about talking to the clinic’s Human Rights Officer/Patient Advocate and stomping on her “diagnosis” with both feet. The last thing you want is to have panic attacks two years from now and be unable to get anyone to give you Klonopin because of your “history of substance abuse.”
The phrase ‘denies X’ when entered in a medical record is the standard way of recording a patient saying they haven’t done something. It’s not intended to be snarky ‘they deny it, but it’s true’, it’s just a way of recording a patient’s negative response in an interview.
Excuse me if someone already said this. If you feel that there was a misinterpretation, make an appointment with an administrator or supervisor at the clinic to express youir concerns and request that it be clarified. Under HIPAA, you also have the right to place a letter in your chart stating that you disagree with the diagnosis and why.
Try convincing anyone that you can have a drug problem, and not have an alcohol problem, get over the drug problem, with some help, and still not have an alcohol problem, and have a drink now and then without developing an alcohol problem, or going back to a drug problem.
There is no point in even trying to do it. Never mind. Be a drunk junky. Fuck it, it’s easier.
