[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
<snip>
2) You keep large quantities of alcohol horded in your house (i.e. “There’s a shelf full of beer in the fridge.”)
<snip>
[/QUOTE]
I was thinking about this after work today. True alcoholics don’t horde booze in their house, because they drink it all as soon as it gets home! :smack:
(my bold) Funny, I’ve used those very words when evaluating someone’s recent food/liquid intake. I doubt you’ve heard how every healthcare provider asks their questions.
If you just want to believe something you can, just like the interviewer in the OP.
We have alcohol in our liquor cabinet that was opened 25 years ago. It was from my husband’s parent’s liquor cabinet, and he can’t bear to throw it away.
We also have unopened wine in our wine storage cabinet that is 5 years old. It will, one day, be gifted to someone special.
Sometimes a banana is just a cigar. 
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
I was thinking about this after work today. True alcoholics don’t horde booze in their house, because they drink it all as soon as it gets home! :smack:
[/QUOTE]
Well, you know, I don’t think this is any time to start playing No True Scotchman…
If it makes you feel any better, I’m apparently an alcoholic too.
History: A couple of years ago (before I went on a real diet and totally modified my eating habits) I had a series of blood tests done because I was just generally not-well. My liver function tests came back kind of questionable, and I got called into my doctor’s office and subjected to the ‘are you an alcoholic?’ speech.
I replied that no, I am not nor have I ever been, and explained that the unusual liver readings probably weren’t too surprising because I had fatty liver syndrome in my early 20s from poor diet and stress, and my lifestyle in the most recent few years had lapsed back into being very bad in terms of saturated fats and unhealthy foods. Plus I had been very stressed and depressed in the past year, so it made perfect sense to me that we might be looking at a recurrence of that condition.
The doctor fixated on the words ‘fatty liver syndrome’. That’s an alcoholic’s disease, you see. It’s also a non-alcoholic’s disease, but that’s not what it’s famous for, it’s not the easiest answer, and it was absolutely not what he was interested in hearing.
I explained that I didn’t drink except maybe once or twice a year (and then only a token amount, say at a Christmas toast or something) precisely *because *of the ongoing liver troubles; alcohol made me feel very ill, very quickly. Nonetheless he made it clear he didn’t believe me, and wouldn’t remove ‘alcohol abuse’ from my file.
It’d be funny if it wasn’t so frustrating.
On the plus side, it brought it home to me that nobody was interested in fixing my problems, so I’d better start fixing them myself. I made a couple of very minor changes that year, but really got my act together the following year - made a booking with an endocrinologist, got my blood sugar/insulin issues sorted out, changed my diet drastically… now my liver readings (along with a lot of other previously bad readings) are in the realm of ‘normal’ again.
Not that it matters to my GP - it is, and will remain, marked in red letters and circled on my permanent file: ALCOHOL ABUSE?
At least they added the question mark.
When my husband had pancreatitis the ER personnel kept asking him how much alcohol he drank a day.
He hadn’t had alcohol in about 5 years.
When they couldn’t get him to 'fess up to something he hadn’t done, they started on me - “How much alcohol does your husband drink a day?” I truthfully responded that he hadn’t had a drink in years. Then they started on whether or not he ever smelled of alcohol, whether there were beer cans in the trash, money missing from the bank, unexplained absences…
No, no, no, no and no! He does not drink alcohol
Then it was “How long has he been sober?” and “How long has he been in AA?”
No, you jackasses HE DOESN’T HAVE DRINKING PROBLEM, and HE DOES NOT DRINK ALCOHOL.
I realize that pancreatitis has a strong association with alcoholism, but your own freakin’ medical literature and “patient handout” says about 1/3 of the cases are for no explicable cause. I’m sorry if he looks every bit the redneck cracker and we live an economically depressed rustbelt city but, holy fuck, not everyone drinks!
Wow, I think I’m still upset about it, now that I think about it…
The whole time he was in the hospital we kept getting hit with drinking questions. Cripes! Anyone, I can certainly sympathize with that sort of knee jerk assumption leading to frustration and anger.
I had a good giggle at the post about your user name, Red Roses for Me! My favorite band…
And I prefer to change the word “drinking” in the AA 12 Questions to “thinking.” It’s actually MORE accurate for me as a sober alcoholic!
My favorites are “Is thinking making your home life unhappy?”, “Is your thinking affecting your reputation?”, “Have you ever felt remorse after thinking?”, “Has your ambition decreased since thinking?”, “Has your efficiency decreased since thinking?”, “Is thinking jeopardizing your job or business?”, “Have you ever been to a hospital or institution because of thinking?”
Chill, babe- you got a bad therapist. It happens.
[QUOTE=EJsGirl]
“Have you ever felt remorse after thinking?”
[/QUOTE]
Well, I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s gotten a crazy doctor or therapist with an agenda.
They may have better funding for alcoholic treatment.
They may feel alcohol is a clearer and more simple condition to treat. With a broad enough definition ,they can justify treating nearly every body.
[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
Let’s get to the facts here:
Looking at it from the outside, can’t you see why your counselor is worried about your problem and your very safety?
[/QUOTE]
My god! I recently was advised to restrict my alcohol consumption to a single glass of wine at dinnertime, due to a prescription that I’m on. But I still have about a half-bottle each of Stoli and Bombay in the freezer, from when I used to have martinis. I haven’t touched them in two months and have been complying with the doctor’s advice. But from this comment I suppose I’d better pour them down the sink poste haste, along with the JW Black Label in the cabinet, or I’m in trouble.
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers]
From the impression I get reading threads on the SDMB, I would think that a rather high proportion of the population of the UK would be classified alcoholic by USof A standards…
[/QUOTE]
You must understand that we are the country of prohibition, corporate medicine, and war. If it offends an arbitrary more then we will make it yellow, war against it must be declared. Moderate positions are never tolerated against these insidious evils… all evils stem from Women, Drink, and ultimately Pool Halls.
It is a common psychological tool of fascism to declare moral superiority and all knowingness, of course the Doctors of Letters and Physicians know better than you… Here in the US that which the “moral authority” decree is doctrine. Hysterical hardline, to prosecute.
She is to be demonized. She might as well be pleading for sanity from the insane… no moderation in these matters.
Well, in all fairness, alchoholics and drug abusers frequently LIE. And if you are seeing a mental health professional, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to suggest that drinking while you have emotional or mental health issues might not be the way to go.
I have a couple of thoughts on the subject:
Real men drink. We get together with our friends in bars and drink pitchers of beer all night. We drink Budwiser while watching the football game. We enjoy bottles or red wine with steak dinners. We kick back after work with a couple of martinis or glasses of scotch. That kind of shit.
Life is not about refraining from all things that might not be good for you.
Either I have better health insurance than all of you or they seem more receptive to the way I answer their questions. “Yes, I drink”. “Yes, five or more drinks on a given night is not unusual for me.” Sometimes they express a little concern, but basically I like hanging out with my friends having a few drinks in a bar. I don’t generally don’t get shitfaced because I’ve more or less outgrown the “dude!! let’s get fucked up!” mentality. I think when you come accross as evasive or defensive, it triggers a red flag in their academic health professional mind.
LOL, I have mentioned it before on SD …
AA out and out considers me an alkie in serious denial all because I offered to help a buddy of my husbands get to an AA meeting. He had an alcohol related car incedent and the navy told him he had to go to AA meetings, since he couldnt drive I offered to drive him. I am sitting in the back snarfing down coffee, and they want me to speak. I eexplain that I only drove Andrew and I wasnt here for anything else. They kepthammering at me, and I told tham that the only alcohol I drank other than toasts at wedding and new years was an occasional dash of brandy in coffee MAYBE once a week [something on the order of a tablespoon not a whole shot like in a bar] they told me that i was in serious denial about my drinking. I got up after telling andrew that i would be in the car and walked out. I never went back in and think it is for shite that they would hammer soneone [even if I did have a drinking problem, it should be MY decision to say anything about it. If I had been a problem drinker that serously would have had me not returning. They are supposed to be nonjudgmental about drinking and let peopl e come in on their own.]
My doc has no issue with me having an occasional splash of brandy in coffee, and he wouldnt have an issue with me having a glass of wine with dinner every night if I wanted to … I dont because I dont need to drink, and I am on pain meds and I really dont want to risk any complications even though a single serving 4 or 5 nights a week isnt to be worried about. Not to say that in my youth I didnt get drunk, I just dont hapen to need to get drunk. I like myself=)
That was not “AA.” That sounds more like a room full of idiots. We get visitors, family members and supportive friends in our meetings all the time, and no-one expects that they are there for any other reason. How lame.
Yeah, I’ve been to a lot of AA meetings to support other people and have never had that kind of experience. A lot of the substance abuse counselor training classes here encourage students to go to AA to see first-hand what it’s like, and none of the students have ever told me they were treated as anything but guests if they identified themselves that way.
[QUOTE=msmith537]
Either I have better health insurance than all of you or they seem more receptive to the way I answer their questions. “Yes, I drink”. “Yes, five or more drinks on a given night is not unusual for me.” Sometimes they express a little concern, but basically I like hanging out with my friends having a few drinks in a bar. I don’t generally don’t get shitfaced because I’ve more or less outgrown the “dude!! let’s get fucked up!” mentality. I think when you come accross as evasive or defensive, it triggers a red flag in their academic health professional mind.
[/QUOTE]
I agree, this might be the case with some doctors or counselors. My neurologist was going through various health questions during an evaluation for treating my migraines, and came to the “Do you drink?” question. I said “Yes.” He asked “How many days a week do you drink?” and my immediate reply (true at the time) was “Seven.” He looks up at me, eyebrow slightly arched. “How many drinks per day?” “One at night with dinner.” His expression relaxed and he noted that in my chart, and didn’t pursue any more alcohol questioning IIRC.
IMHO, the question gives the doctor an easy way out: Whatever problem you have is a result of alcoholism, so off to AA and rehab you go.
I don’t care how much you drink, nor should anyone. Here is the correct answer to the alcohol question from any doctor, counselor, etc.: “I might have a drink when I have company over. How often, I’m not sure; it’s so little I don’t count. If I had to guess, if I had 4 drinks in a year then that would be about right.”
If you say you never drink, then you are under heightened scrutiny. If you say you get trashed with your friends on weekends, then they Don’t Approve of such things so they dump you in the diagnostic drunk tank. Now, if you think that you may have a drinking problem, then by all means pursue that. It is very serious and should be point #1 in anything.
But don’t let this neo-prohibition nonsense that because you keep a wine rack in your house, or a case of beer in the garage fridge, make people tell you that you have a problem when you probably don’t…
[QUOTE=aruvqan]
LOL, I have mentioned it before on SD …
AA out and out considers me an alkie in serious denial all because I offered to help a buddy of my husbands get to an AA meeting. He had an alcohol related car incedent and the navy told him he had to go to AA meetings, since he couldnt drive I offered to drive him. I am sitting in the back snarfing down coffee, and they want me to speak. I eexplain that I only drove Andrew and I wasnt here for anything else. They kepthammering at me, and I told tham that the only alcohol I drank other than toasts at wedding and new years was an occasional dash of brandy in coffee MAYBE once a week [something on the order of a tablespoon not a whole shot like in a bar] they told me that i was in serious denial about my drinking. I got up after telling andrew that i would be in the car and walked out. I never went back in and think it is for shite that they would hammer soneone [even if I did have a drinking problem, it should be MY decision to say anything about it. If I had been a problem drinker that serously would have had me not returning. They are supposed to be nonjudgmental about drinking and let peopl e come in on their own.]
My doc has no issue with me having an occasional splash of brandy in coffee, and he wouldnt have an issue with me having a glass of wine with dinner every night if I wanted to … I dont because I dont need to drink, and I am on pain meds and I really dont want to risk any complications even though a single serving 4 or 5 nights a week isnt to be worried about. Not to say that in my youth I didnt get drunk, I just dont hapen to need to get drunk. I like myself=)
[/QUOTE]
My sister the “I’ve never been diagnosed alcoholic” alcholic occasionally decides maybe her family has pestered her enough and goes off to AA - mostly to make my mother happy I suspect…
They seem to regularly tell her (and my mother has been in the room when its been said) that she is not an alcoholic because she can leave a bottle of wine alone in the house for three weeks, or drink one glass. Which she can do. Then she drinks three in a row, can’t stop, loses her job, spends a month drunk and figures out she needs to sober up or die, sobers up, shows up in an AA meeting where they tell her “you can’t possibly be an alcoholic…”
My sister, for at least the past three years, CAN leave alcohol in the house and CAN stop at just one. What she can’t do is get drunk. Once she gets drunk, she stays drunk until forced to get sober. This seems to be an unusual pattern for alcoholics. What is not unusual is she chooses to get drunk when stressed - which makes getting sober difficult.
That’s pretty lame, too. One can be a binge-drinking alcoholic just as easily as a daily-drinking alcoholic. It’s not how much you drink, or how often.
Sorry your sis goes to sucky meetings. If she was close to me, I’d show her a couple of great ones.
During my (very) short stint in ambulatory care, the counselor who oriented me, said that when I asked the “How much, how often, do you drink?” questions, to triple the answer. If they say “I have one drink with dinner, each night”, write three. If they say “I have one drink a month”, write three a week.
I was stunned. I asked if she was telling me to falsify a chart entry.
Her answer was, “They all lie, you’re just bringing the answer back in line.” I told her, she could “correct” what ever she pleased, but I would write what the patients told me.
It wasn’t long before I back in critical care. :rolleyes:
I know her attitude is fairly common in re-hab and ERs.
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
Dude, I had a shelf full of hard lemonade (oooh, so risky) in my fridge from when my friend and I were watching movies. The fact that I had it there for so long (slowly dwindling–I offer it to another guy whenever he’s over) shows that I don’t drink because I’ve pretty much never had alcohol when alone. In fact, pretty much everyone I know has some “stockpile” of alcohol at their house. And most of us can stop whenever we want. We’re all alcoholics?
[/QUOTE]
I just spun my chair around and took this picture. I’ve been accused of being an alcoholic a few times. Actually, it’s usually my wife that calls me that. The other thing she tells me is that I spend too much money on liquor. I usually have to re-explain to her that it’s not that I bought all this in one trip to the store, this collection was built over 5 years or so. (The little fridge is also stocked with beer).
