Suicide Notes? NOT short!!

[joyfool]

Zoe: I missed so much the first time I replied to you. Guess I am a little tired and dragging more than usual. I wanted to add a few things I forgot… Ever want to compare notes on mothers? If so, I’m SO there with the requisite ice cream, empathy and a movie of your choice. I can’t believe that so many of us have this conception of a certain type of parent and yet our reality is amazingly the fartherest thing from the truth. Mine even lines up with the “outside-the-home charming” part. :mad:

Ah, guilt over the affair. That really does leave? I’m racked with it and every day want to kick my own ass for being so blind, gullible and willing to chuck it all in hopes of it saving me. What a laugh. But, that is another reason for those therapy sessions (and the voodoo doll, but let’s not talk about that), and I guess I’ll just have to wait for time to heal. And pray that it does. Will leave any more comments about my slimeball out of this post since I’m not in the Pit. Just sorry that you had one too.

Phobias??? I have them a plenty. I have some sort of bizarre hang-up about Sundays being my absolute worst day of the week. I’m almost paralyzed talking to people on the phone that I don’t know, even over something as simple as ordering pizza. I can’t stand loose hair (my own, off the top of my head) to touch me, IE: being lodged in my clothes. So, yep, there’s a check on that part of the questionnaire too. That was part of the reason I thought I had so much hope with “Ted” was because he seemed to make them go away or get better. Now I realize I just wanted that to be the case and by sheer force of will, made it so. Which also explains why it was pretty much falling apart mid-ways through and I was staying to keep the illusion alive and honor my word. How idiotic.

I DO cry a lot and cycle like crazy (manic high, manic low, severe depression, panic attack followed by a brief lull then suicidal thoughts and on and on, all within about an hour and a half – occasionally, it feels like 15 minutes though), so I’m trying to keep up the work from the therapist, be positive, understand myself and others and move forward veeeeery sloooooowly. It’s just so hard when I’m tired and here we go again for the fortieth time today. I’m sure you understand.

As a Steinem fan, I’ll definitely look for that book. I also wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to tell me so much, to try and help, to be an advocate for me. I’ve never had much of that. I’m also over-joyed that you’re better. Several years of being ‘suicidal tendencies’ free is quite the accomplishment. I don’t even know you but I’m so proud. Way to go! (If that doesn’t sound too corny. ) Thank you for writing all that out and explaining better than I could to others what I was trying to say. You’re certainly more the author than I am. You described very eloquently what it’s like dealing with this. I also had another therapist who likened it to being one’s first time to jump out of an airplane, against your will and with a broken leg, not sure if you even have your parachute and then being told to calmly recite the Declaration of Independence backwards in Spanish while ignoring the ocean you’re quickly approaching. Very apt indeed, IMHO.

About my name… in the old days, I went by hopefool because I still had hope but it seemed foolish, considering how my life was going/had turned out, etc. I changed it to this, 1.) to avoid the ex (yes, he’s that dense), and 2.) because I have completely lost any faith I had left and felt like a fool for having it in the first place. Not to mention, I suppose it will always be my lasting reminder to myself and a bass-ackwards tribute to my husband over the affair. I don’t ever want to forget the damage I caused. I don’t know if that’s totally negative or not, or if it just comes out as a wash. But right now, it accurately reflects how my heart is.

I think Broomstick nailed all the apology issues. It IS/WAS a defense mechanism that’s long since passed its usefulness. But back in the day, it was much easier and less painful to take all the responsibility for anything wrong for anybody than deal with the consequences, even if it wasn’t directed at me. It is so ingrained, I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to stop it completely. Hell, I apologize for bumping into doors. So sadly, there ya go. Another thing to continue working on.

Thank you again. I feel like I’ve met a kindred spirit. May good things happen for both of us.

[joyfool]

Broomstick: Man, you’re good! Just like I said to Zoe, you couldn’t have been more accurate about my constant apologizing unless you’d been there. Wow. Have you missed your calling? Your insight is very good.

I appreciate the suggestion of MPSIMS and the Pit. Obviously, I’ve used the latter on more than one occasion and I’m sure I’ll get around to it again. That is, if I don’t run every Doper off by monopolizing IMHO. I promise to try and cut back.

::: hands shake and I look longingly at the forum and the folks here :::

Soon. Really. How about tomorrow? Or shouldn’t I start that on a Monday?

Cognitively, I know that what I have is as “real” a problem as someone with a physical ailment or other hardships. However, even when I “feel” well, I don’t think what I go through seems real. I’m sure that doesn’t make sense, but I can certainly see how others would think that even moreso. And I’m so glad your mom survived her stroke and recovered fully. I hear that is so very hard to do and takes great will power and stamina. Your mom must be an incredible person. Tell her I’ll remember that, what all she’s been through and overcome, as an inspiration that I can definitely beat this piddly ol’ chemical imbalance (yep, that’s what the head doctors DO say it is). I’m also blushing over what you said about respect. That I’ll just leave at a thank you.

About your sister… words fail me. I wish I could say I truly understand, feeling like I’ve been in a similar situation for so long a time, but I know each one is unique and I can’t imagine doing this another 9 years. In my book, I would have qualified your sister for sainthood just for her sustained effort. And being able to remain functioning, I’d have given anything to get that back. It’s bad enough to lose everything, as you well know, but to also feel like a drain on society because you can’t contribute, eats away any shred of self-esteem left. (Not like I ever had any, but it still got to me even then.) I also understand her not making ‘gestures’ because she didn’t want to be found out. My first attempt was when my husband had left work several hours early and ‘caught’ me in the act. The second time, I was home all alone and didn’t tell anyone until much later after the fact. I guess though, in my confused brain, it at least seems better (to me anyway, and I did say confused) if it’s not completely unexpected. That WOULD kill me if someone I loved did it and I had no clue. Again, thank for telling me all that to help me. I will, just like what else I’ve read here, keep it close to my heart always and mostly when it’s at its worst.

The phrase “run out of cope” is perfect. Right after this happened, probably a year in, my husband said that was my biggest problem… my mother hadn’t equipped me with any coping tools when I was growing up. What I’d done so far was simply because that’s what everyone did and I was on auto-pilot. Throw in the adage about believing in “pulling oneself up by their own bootstraps” and such sentiments, no wonder when the break came that I collapsed. She’d controlled everything, much like others have mentioned. I won’t go into detail (unless someone is curious), but let’s just say that up until last September, I was still expected to speak to my mother every day and although I’d repeatedly tried to break her of insisting on the habit, even when there was nothing to say or report (an agoraphobic doesn’t run into many people or situations in their living room), she’d trot out a guilt trip, I’d be weak and cave, go forever without mentioning it again and feel honor-bound that it was my duty. Hope that explains some. Now I need those coping skills, dammit, and I plan on getting them. As long as I don’t allow myself to derail during the tempests. God, I just wish it wasn’t so hard all. the. time. I feel like I’m swimming upstream with every breath I take and I can’t ever stop or I’ll drown. Ugh.

I didn’t have a chance to help my sister in her final days. I won’t refuse to help someone else. She deliberately pushed everyone away and hid what she was thinking. You are reaching out for help. It gives me hope that you can survive this crisis. As for me… I am strong enough to carry a small fraction of your burden by listening to you, even if it causes old wounds to twinge. Don’t worry about me - I’ll be fine. Worry about you, and what you need to do to get past this.

Thank you, so much, for doing this and trying to help those you can. I pushed away all my friends in the beginning to spare them the unknown and eventually, not to hurt them like I was my husband (who, by then, was pretty much the only person left) daily. I’m not sure that this is a good thing or not, but I’ve always reached out when I REALLY needed something and not a moment earlier. That’s another problem I have because it puts too much emphasis by the time it gets there and the pressure is enormous. I’m destined to fail. But I was raised to handle everything myself (although I was never told or shown or allowed to do this), so the ‘last ditch chance’ is the only thing I seem to remember when times are really bad. I tell myself I’ll speak up when it gets worse, not realizing I’m already way passed it. That’s the reason I’ve gone off medications before, is so I’ll have something to rely on if things turn sour. At least that lie I’ll never fall for again. You’ll pry my cold dead hands off anything that makes me normal and healthy. And even more of a thank you than the zillion I’ve already handed out for listening and taking on my burden from way over there in Indiana. This Texas is mighty appreciative. God bless you all and the internet.

[joyfool]

@Gyrate

Well yes, I should have been clearer about that. It is an unhealthy self-obsession. Regardless of the justifications about doing it for other people, it’s always about oneself.

True, being suicidal (especially constantly) IS inherently an unhealthy self-obsession. I wish that weren’t true and I’ve been chastised for most of my illness (and life in general) for putting others people’s needs above my own. Don’t even ask what kind of grief I got after my hospital stays and being too concerned about the other patients. It’s just when I’m really far gone that I lose sight. Always, I am last priority except then. And that’s when I’m worried about these parts… survivors, clean up, etc. So, maybe someday I’ll find a healthy balance.

::: crosses fingers AGAIN :::

It was a cheap shot and I apologize. I got unduly snarky. Yes, yes, yes, and yes, thank you for asking. After several years of dealing with it my coping skills are pretty good, and I have very supportive friends and family. One day at a time, my friend.

Hey, now it’s my turn to say it: no need to apologize. I can understand snarkiness and railing at the heavens and a whole bunch of other crap. I’m just thrilled that things have gotten so much better for you and you’re able to cope well now. That having supportive family and friends couldn’t be a bigger help too. I’ll plan on that “one day at a time” thing as often as I can. Pinky swear.

Point taken and apology reiterated.

See above but add an additional smiley or three.

I suppose it’s a philosophical difference. Perhaps I just include in the definition of “peace” an awareness of the state, whereas “dead” is nothingness.

We can agree on that one, surely. Only difference, I imagine, is that “nothingness” has a lot of times been preferable to me. Just another quirk in my system of being worn down, I guess.

Tangentially but not unrelated, I went through a long period a few years back of deep emotional numbness. It was horrible, like being smothered under three feet of blankets. Frankly I’d rather have the pain.

And this is our divergent path, eh? When I’m that numb, it doesn’t just seem hopeless, but pointless. Like NOTHING in the entire universe and all the good it’s ever produced is worth these kinds of pains to people, not just meaning me. I think that’s where I was during the second attempt… zoned out into empty space, where no one can hear you scream and it doesn’t matter. Not a bit. That scares the hell out of me and I can’t see the two not entertwined. Therefore, I’d opt, as said, for peace in death over numbness and complete pain and misery in life. Hopefully though, I’m gonna get past that someday. I’m sure it’ll be lots of work, but I do finally have lots of good things going for me. Meds that are working, a great therapist and the absolute bestest friend ever conceived. Plus, there’s here. It can’t help but improve, right?

It’s good to know we’re on the same page here, although this one I won’t apologize for carping about. As you will have noted the “they’ll be better off without me” statement is a sore point for me (and as you may remember from your reading is considered a warning sign and an indication of unhealthy and dangerous thinking, from a therapeutic POV). If people are spending the time to help you (generically speaking) get through the bad bits (even if they all seem like bad bits), the worst thing you can do is to demonstrate that they were wasting their time. And if they’re not helping you, the worst you can do is prove that they were right to ignore you. I find that being a contrary bastard is a great survival tool.

Again, there’s isn’t anything to be sorry about. It’s understood now where you, and others, were coming from. I never viewed that them trying to help, if I failed, might be seen as them “wasting their time.” I simply think of them as angelic. I should see it more that way. I’ll be writing myself notes from all this for days to come. And really, is being a contrary bastard a good thing? If it’ll help me survive and go back to being normal (well, as much as I ever was), then were do I sign up to take that class?

It’s understandable, considering how emotionally charged the subject is. It’s a little like asking “Is it better to put down an old dog by taking it to the vet or shooting it yourself?” You might get some objective answers, but you’ll also get a whole lot of upset people with still-tender emotional scars.Sometimes a little tough love is what’s needed. I’m sorry you feel bad. Heck, I’m sorry I feel bad. Sometimes I feel bad that I feel bad, and sometimes I feel angry about it. Guess which helps me more?

For someone who over-analyzes things like I do, I sometimes miss the most obvious things. I believe I grasped that some folks would read this who’d gone through the worst, but I think I feebly guessed my disclaimers would help. I can’t understand how I was that insensitive and came across as so crass or not seeing farther ahead. To everyone I’ve put in that position, I apologize profusely. What you’ve been through and felt means a lot to me for you to post it here. Thank you for overcoming your scars to speak what you thought was necessary. (And I so hope I’m learning better communicating skills from this.) This all means the world to me.

Talk about “sore points”… you bring up “tough love” and I bristle. I know, I know. Although I’m certain it works with lots of people and can be quite essential, that was my mother’s answer to everything and she almost was never on base with her assessment. I’ve got to get over that and realize not everyone means it in the same heavy-handed context that she did, but I forget sometimes. Reminders are good. :o I don’t know what to say about you feeling bad for me but thanks. I’ll take any good wishes (and that’s what I’d view that as) I can get. I feel bad for you when you feel bad for you. (Now that was a logistical nightmare.) We can form a mutual admiration society and keep one another from feeling bad. You in?

To stray back on topic for a moment, if a friend was going to commit suicide and was going to leave me a note, I’d rather he or she just tell me what it would have said before they do anything. At least then I could ask questions, suggest alternatives, let them know how I feel, even just say goodbye. That last one alone counts for a lot.

This brings us back to the beginning. Full circle, everyone already knows what I have to say and there isn’t any more to be done. I wanted it as a goodbye for my soon-to-be ex-husband/bestfriend and a help for my aunt and dad, if possible. I also know how they feel. So I suppose if I ever pick option F, then I’ll simply leave an “I’m sorry I couldn’t do this anymore. No one failed me and I love you all. Thank you for all your years of trying.” and for once, be succinct.

I don’t know how I could let anyone say goodbye though, without it coming across as attention-getting or making them feel worse. There is a reason why the movie 'Night Mother has resonated more loudly with me on this tender subject than anything else ever. I’ll just keep praying for strength and be as positive as I’m able.

Thank you again for being kind enough to respond to what I wasn’t clear on and by being so thoughtful in your replies when I’d been upset. It takes a very big person to apologize. Definitely when they see themselves having gone through a familiar position. You are certainly going to be more than alright. As much of a fortune teller as I can be, I see you doing great. More hugs all around.

[joyfool]

@MsRobyn

Zoe, it is possible to make a half-hearted suicide gesture for attention. Many kids at my high school did it. They’d do something like slash their wrist, but do it very superficially so it bled, but not enough to kill them. Or they’d take an overdose of drugs, but not enough to be fatal.

That said, I am aware that some “gestures” end in death. Something in the plan doesn’t go right; someone gets home too late to help, or whatever. Likewise, I am also too aware of depression; I’ve suffered from it off and on for years. Currently, I am not on medication or in counseling; I find I feel better if I don’t do these things.

My friend is physically fine. I don’t know how he did it, and I don’t want to know, but there were some indications he wasn’t serious about it. First, he notified three people, including me. Second, he timed it so his wife would walk into the house. Third, this isn’t the first time he’s done this. I’m not sure how many times he has, but he’s learned that when things don’t go his way, he can get all the attention and sympathy he wants by doing this. He’s admitted as much to me.

As for me, I’m not distraught, I’m pissed at having been played for a fool. As I said, I’m no stranger to depression, and I know how crippling it can be. However, this was no cry for help. It was a flat-out attempt at manipulation. Now that I know what kind of a person he is, I want nothing more to do with him. He is mentally ill, but until he shows that he is ready and willing to get serious help, his is not a welcome presence in my life.

Robin

Ah, now I see. Like I said, I’ve never known anyone to do that who wasn’t severely disturbed. I guess if someone went “too far” with just an attempt, I’d still have seen that as a cry for help. Perhaps I’m biased because of where I’m looking from.

I’ve read quite a few of your posts (and your husband’s – BTW, belated congratulations on the baby) and I had no idea that you’d suffer[ed] from depression too. I’m happy to know you’ve found relief and without any other assistance. That’s absolutely awesome! I used to want that too (hence also the on-and-off meds thing), but now I’d just be happy for healthy and sane. It’s great to hear when someone finds both and they’re able to do it all on their own. Gives the rest of us (some? more? any?) hope.

Just wondering… besides these blatant whatever-they-ares, is this man really getting any help? Or is he just looking for sympathy and not solutions? From what you wrote at the end, it doesn’t appear that way. And I can’t imagine multiple attempts to be found before death as anything but crazy. So, if he’s not out there looking for answers, I am really perplexed. Why would anyone do this if they didn’t have a medical/mental problem compelling them? I’m shocked (although I’m sure I shouldn’t be) that somebody would ‘fake’ this kind of thing. The idea is just repulsive and I would never want to have to face myself in the mirror each morning if I was.

::: shuddering some more :::

Again, you’re right to distance yourself from this guy and I’m glad you’re just pissed. But don’t be hard on yourself for having been “played for a fool” because that’s BS, pure and simple. Most people don’t want to take chance with lives and it’s much better to see any of it as needing help (even the lesser kind where someone is screwed up but not to an unmanageable degree) rather than second-guessing yourself the remainder of your days. I couldn’t stand myself if I’d ever thought that, than lost someone and I’m sure you feel the same and was trying to stand by that principle. It’s not easy to just go “Whoops! He cried wolf one too many times and this time I just called it wrong.” because you’re not like that. He took advantage of the fact that you cared, which is 1.) easy to do if you’re trusting, and 2.) not wrong. Ever. So, cut yourself much slack. What he did was bad. You trying to help was beautiful. However, until he helps himself, no one else (as you realize) can do it for him.

[joyfool]

@TellMeI'mNotCrazy

I couldn’t agree more. ANything worth saying in death is twice as much so in life - if you think your words truly are meant to help, I think it’s a lot more meaningful to get them straight from you, rather than reading a note. I’d rather know before you go, and have the chance to do whatever I felt I could, than get a note after, and wonder what I might have done to stop you.

Like I posted somewhere a million miles above, everything is already known and what I thought could possibly help would only be achieved afterwards. Anything said to my mother falls on deaf ears because SHE IS NEVER WRONG. Anything said to my aunt is glossed over and denied for fear of reprisal and a need for action. Definitely no wanting to shake the boat there. Anything said to my dad he wouldn’t understand.

So, that’s why I thought, maybe confronted with truth of some of her decisions and consequences, changes would have to be made. Probably not by her, but perhaps by my aunt (pulling dad along). I knew, deep inside, that it wasn’t going to work if it came to that, but I am as persistent as Horton the Elephant and if there was any way I could save, even after the fact, then I was damn well going to do it. Regardless of how much it would mean my mother would hate me and spew it out to all who’d listen.

But it won’t happen. They’re all stuck in one big mess of co-dependency and, just like me, they’ll have to help themselves. Besides, from this thread I think I’ve taken note that I should focus my attention on living rather than dying.

Oh, and lastly, just so I’m up-front about good old mom’s feelings about me… she’s already repeatedly said none of this is her fault, ever, and that if I do commit suicide, it wasn’t because she wasn’t a good mother. And just like Pontius Pilot then, she’s washed her hands of this part. Yeah, gotta love support like that. As a matter of fact, my mother thinks therapy is a quack (except for her deranged daughter, that is) and yet the ONLY time she’s ever gone for herself, was so that she could find someone to tell her (like my aunt, dad, anyone who’s scared of her wasn’t enough), pay them, that she isn’t in anyway responsible. Like the one time she agreed to accompany me, she manipulated the entire session by brow-beating the fellow with how hard I’ve been on her life, the sacrifices she’s made for me, how ungrateful I am and her never-ending unconditional love, patience, support and compassion. Know how I found all this out? From the very same aunt that’s terrified of her shadow, mom took her to the session and was then sworn to secrecy. However, one day whilst mom was on a rampage, my aunt broke down in tears and confessed lots of things and that was one of them. Later, she recanted, but I expected that and wouldn’t of held her to it anyway or ever brought it up to mom.

But that is why before hand or in person is unnecessary and just plain wouldn’t work/help/do any good. The regime would squelch any uprising before it even began. :dubious:

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts again. Really much appreciated.

[calm_kiwi]

@faithfool

I also appreciate you sharing your painful story. I know that no matter how well I could ever plan this out or how good (if that’s applicable) my intentions, in the aftermath it would matter squat. What I hadn’t considered though were tangential people in my life, like acquaintances, neighbors, ex co-workers, etc., being effected.

You do need to seriously consider that. Years after my husband died, people who were at the best aquaintances, were telling me they wished that they had done something. One bloke he had worked with for 6 months told me he meant to ring him that night because he “didn’t seem right” at work that day. He was in tears when he apologised for not ringing. Shit! It wasn’t like they were best friends or anything but he still felt guilt.

And I always shared (my mental health problems) in case it would help someone else. So, I didn’t think about those further outside the realm and I should have. I do know that it’s been just one of many integral reasons for me not wanting children… like I might be passing on some sort of warped ‘legacy’ that they feel doomed to repeat. I even worry about that now with my bestfriend. Also, I know he’ll think, that despite super human efforts, it will still somehow be his fault and that he should have been able to prevent it. I HATE knowing that, which is another factor in having held on this long.

My husband had a horrible childhood though he tried to be a positive person it really wasn’t something he found easy. His childhood had stained his life. He was frequently depressed. It still shocked EVERYONE when he killed himself.

Your best friend will end up feeling worse then you do now. Would you wish that on anyone?

I certainly understand why you wish you could hate your husband. It would go a long ways toward helping you move passed it and I pray that comes for you someday soon. But unlike him, I’m not in this position after some fleeting moment of despair or spite. This is ongoing and may well be for the rest of my natural life. Sometimes, and the consequences to others, is more than I can bear.

Do you want to give those who care about you a life sentence of despair? Though in theory I should have been able to get over his death, in reality I can’t. His suicide has given me a life sentence. It has affected every single part of my life. Do you want to do that to someone else? I really don’t think you do.

In conclusion, I hope your son never thinks that suicide is an appropriate ‘option’ because of his father’s actions. I’ll respectfully disagree on whether it is or is not for others. However, if hatred is appropriate for those remaining, than I would never begrudge them whatever they need to cope and move on. I wish you and your son only the best and am very sorry that it’s been something you had to go through and survive.

Thank you for your kind thoughts. Think about what everyone here has said to you please.

[calm_kiwi]

@faithfool

For someone who over-analyzes things like I do, I sometimes miss the most obvious things. I believe I grasped that some folks would read this who’d gone through the worst, but I think I feebly guessed my disclaimers would help. I can’t understand how I was that insensitive and came across as so crass or not seeing farther ahead. To everyone I’ve put in that position, I apologize profusely. What you’ve been through and felt means a lot to me for you to post it here. Thank you for overcoming your scars to speak what you thought was necessary. (And I so hope I’m learning better communicating skills from this.) This all means the world to me.

AHH BUGGER! I’d like to give you a big hug and a big slap at the same time. You are obviously a caring person. Care enough to keep chugging through. It’s all you can do sometimes. Suicide could never be an option for me (how unloved would a child feel if both parents suicided!) If you are the person you come across as you couldn’t hurt those around you. My depression lost me a career but I know suicide is not an option…I admit I play fast and loose with my health, hoping karma may get me but seriously you KNOW you dn’t want to inflict pain on others.

We can form a mutual admiration society and keep one another from feeling bad. You in?

Sure

This brings us back to the beginning. Full circle, everyone already knows what I have to say and there isn’t any more to be done. I wanted it as a goodbye for my soon-to-be ex-husband/bestfriend and a help for my aunt and dad, if possible. I also know how they feel. So I suppose if I ever pick option F, then I’ll simply leave an “I’m sorry I couldn’t do this anymore. No one failed me and I love you all. Thank you for all your years of trying.” and for once, be succinct.

They will still be left more hurt then you can imagine.

[DoctorJ]

There is a lot of personal experience in here. I have never had anyone close to me commit suicide, though I have dealt with the issue myself at various times through the years.

I have, however, taken care of a lot of people after suicide attempts (of all kinds), and I’ve had the opportunity to read a few dozen letters in the past few years. I developed a rather strange fascination with them that drove my fiction writing for a while.

The letters I’ve seen seem to fall into four categories:
–Terse. Usually just enough to let the survivors know that it was no accident.
–Snide (for lack of a better word). Lengthy but pointed, meant to make the survivors feel bad, usually not blaming them directly but not leaving any doubt about it.
–Clinical. Completely devoid of emotion, and neatly written. No explanations of why; just bank account numbers/PINs, people who need to be called, specific requests about arrangements. (I have seen a couple that were written in the style of Clinical but were actually Snide.)
–Emotional. The polar opposite of Clinical. Usually written in a scrawl and in a stream-of-consciousness pattern, addressing people individually and pouring out pure expressions of emotion toward them.

I can’t see any of these really helping the family feel better, and any message intended to be delivered in the note is going to be completely outweighed by the act. The primary purpose of the note seems to be confirmation that it was, in fact, a suicide.

[Broomstick]

@faithfool

Broomstick: Man, you’re good! Just like I said to Zoe, you couldn’t have been more accurate about my constant apologizing unless you’d been there. Wow. Have you missed your calling? Your insight is very good.

Well, my sister did struggle with depression a long, long time… I learned a lot form her. The details were vastly different but the underlying disorder was the same, and she was quite articulate.

I appreciate the suggestion of MPSIMS and the Pit. Obviously, I’ve used the latter on more than one occasion and I’m sure I’ll get around to it again. That is, if I don’t run every Doper off by monopolizing IMHO. I promise to try and cut back.

Hey, you’ve got a real need here and we can handle the bandwidth. The board hamsters will just have run faster for a few days. You aren’t the first to drop in wtih this sort of need to talk… anyone who gives you grief for reaching out on this board when you need help will be dragged to the Pit and I will give them the sharp edge of my tongue.

If you need to talk, talk. Sometimes it’s easier with faceless strangers. You do what you need to do to get the help you need when you need it, OK?

And I’m so glad your mom survived her stroke and recovered fully. I hear that is so very hard to do and takes great will power and stamina. Your mom must be an incredible person.

Try “stubborn”

More and more I think it’s not so much that there are extraordinary people, but ordinary people who do extraordinary things. You don’t always know what you’re capable of doing until you’re called to do it. And, you know, bravery and courage don’t mean being fearless - it means going ahead and doing what needs to be done despite your fear.

About your sister… words fail me. I wish I could say I truly understand, feeling like I’ve been in a similar situation for so long a time, but I know each one is unique and I can’t imagine doing this another 9 years. In my book, I would have qualified your sister for sainthood just for her sustained effort. And being able to remain functioning,

Well, it wasn’t 17 years of unremitting misery - there were good days, too, just as you’ve mentioned having good periods of time.

One major difference between you and my sister is that she had a truly supportive and caring family behind her and you apparently didn’t. Instead of people screaming “Just GET OVER IT already!” she had people who actually tried to help her get past some of her problems. Take her driving phobia, for instance - instead of brow-beating her about it one of my other sisters helped her find a driver so she could get to and from work. Sure, in an ideal world my sister would have overcome her phobia and get back to driving… but we don’t live in an ideal world.

I’d have given anything to get that back. It’s bad enough to lose everything, as you well know, but to also feel like a drain on society because you can’t contribute, eats away any shred of self-esteem left.

I think that’s what was part of what drove her to suicide - she was losing both her job and her house - her job because of budget cuts and her house because she and her long-term SO were breaking up and niether could make the mortgage alone. Ironically, this may have been one of the more “normal” emotional reactions she had - she didn’t lose her job and home because she was depressed, she was depressed because she was losing her house and job. ANYONE is going to feel bad over that, no matter how mentally healthy. But to her it was relapse and failure and she couldn’t see an end in sight. She felt like she would become a useless, dependent drain on those around her. Well, perhaps she would have needed extra from us for awhile, but I believe she would have been on her feet again in time. She didn’t see it that way.

Do take care of yourself, and don’t be afraid to post, OK? There is ALWAYS someone out here on The Dope.

[joyfool]

everyone again. I appreciate all the help, support, encouragement and insight. For those who’ve been there, you have my deepest sympathies. I won’t forget any of what’s been said (printing it all out as we speak) and I’ll take it to heart if I end up in the situation again where I don’t think I can go on. I appreciate you all (especially those who’ve taken the time to reply multiply and with extreme thoughtfulness and care) so very much. I can’t tell you all how grateful I am for your insight into all of this.

Now, I’m going to ask the mods to close it since I’ve had my specific question answered and take a break from the computer today. It’s one of those times and I don’t want to devolve this into a pity party (or heaven forbid, actually start another thread actually looking for sympathy).

Again, you guys rock. Best wishes to each of you and (just one more!) thanks. I’ll be doing my best out here and won’t hesitate to bend an ear in the future in MPSIMS.

~faithfool

[Czarcasm]

As you wish.