A person suffering a horrible, ultimately fatal illness - a person, alone, depressed - a person who makes the ultimate decision while suffering from mental illness. I am curious about different takes on spiritual implications regarding this matter.
I think a person has every right to end his or her own life in that situation and that it carries no moral ramifications whatever. In fact I think it would be immoral to try to stop them.
I’m an agnostic, though, so YMMV.
I agree with DtC 100% I also hate it when people say “it is selfish, think of the people you will hurt.” My response is THEY are the ones who are being selfish… they want you to stay alive and suffer just so they don’t have to face the sadness of losing you. Suicide is fine. Nothing immoral about it at all.
All businesses such as Coke, Nike, and Christianity do not want to lose customers, which is why suicide is considered a bad thing to do in our society.
It seems a religious viewpoint is unwelcome here.
All viewpoints are welcome here - that’s why I asked the question. Please feel free to go ahead with your opinion.
The spiritual viewpoints aside, suicide is illegal and even punishable here in Denmark, even if it sounds bizarre. I suppose it is the same in the US?
The reason why our supposedly rational, non-religious laws prohibit something is that it harms someone specific or society as a whole. Outlawing suicide adresses the latter - by choosing the ‘easy way out’ you deny society of whatever work, education, experience etc you possess (simply put, your taxes). For a young person who is capable of working, it makes sense to outlaw it (not to mention that it’s incredibly sad when people, especially with most their lives ahead of them, decide that there’s nothing worth living for).
For the terminally ill, suffering etc on the other hand, there’s no rational benefit for society to make them carry on. In my view, this decision should be up to the person in question as the only arguments against it are moral, religious and personal. And all these things vary.
Ethically (in the ‘common good’ sense of the word) there’s nothing wrong with it - they don’t harm anyone.
Morally (in the sense of personal beliefs and values), noone can decide that but the person considering suicide.
A good friend of mine recently lost his middle-aged father. My friend had the privilege of flying back to his home on another continent, being told his dad had blown his brains out, having to clean up the messes, attend the funeral, and return here, all without the benefit of having any clue why dad did it. Needless to say my friend is devastated, absolutely crushed. His last memory of his father will be with the contents of his head splattered on the wall behind. I can’t help but feel angry that the dad did it the way he did.
Yes, you have the right to take your own life. But you do NOT have the right to leave your family wondering for the rest of their lives - wondering why you did it, if it was their fault, if there was anything they could have done, if they are bad people because they didn’t notice their loved one suffering so profoundly. Your family doesn’t even get to say goodbye.
My friend is still half a person. He is tormented by thoughts of “I’ll never see my dad again” and “Why?” and “What did I do wrong?” and so on. His life has been profoundly changed and will probably never be the same again. The spark is gone from him, he hasn’t truly smiled since it happened. No doubt he will heal eventually but the scars will always be there.
He has done nothing (as far as he knows) to deserve this unimaginable pain - NOTHING. It breaks my heart to see such a good person suffer because of someone else’s choice.
That’s what’s wrong with suicide.
We’re not talking about suicide in general, just for terminally ill people who are in pain and for whom every living moment is agony. Why should the government force somebody to stay alive who is suffering and who is going to die anyway?
I read this in the* Times* this morning—
“Dr. Richard A. Gardner, a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who developed a theory about parental alienation syndrome, which he said could lead children in high-conflict custody cases to falsely accuse a parent of abuse, died on May 25 at his home in Tenafly, N.J. He was 72. The cause was suicide, said Dr. Gardner’s son, Andrew, who said his father had been distraught over the advancing symptoms of reflex sympathetic dystrophy, a painful neurological syndrome.”
—and I thought, “good for him, poor fellow.”
Not to my knowledge, although there is an old joke about outlawing suicide and proscribing the death penalty. Of course, I presume that its failure to properly commit suicide that leads to a legal punishment? As the converse would be a rather pitiful detterent?
I believe in several principles here. The first is this: You do not own your own life. Its yours on credit, and the lending has an expiration date you cannot know. You also don’t know what opportunities you may find, nor when. ive minutes from now, you may do something that contributes to the world in a way no one else will. People die and people suffer, but no one can contribue to the world like you can. Live with it. Pain is passing, even the worst kinds.
To quote:
Endure. In enduring, grow strong. No one ever won the race by quitting before the finish line.
Regardless, from my standpoint, the deliberate killing of anyone is murder. It may acceptable under some circumstances, even necessary, but it is never just “OK”. You are leaving a legacy of pain and heartache for your family. There are people who love you.
I feel that anything I have borrowed, I may return at an earlier date should I choose.
The converse is also true. Five minutes from now you may do something which causes pain and suffering to a great many people.
For some of the worst kinds of pain, even the fact that they will eventually pass is not incentive enough to make people want to wait it out. Specifically, consider painful, terminal illnesses. The pain will eventually go away . . . when the sufferer dies. Many times, the sufferer is in too much pain to make any sort of positive contribution to society. They’re not going to stumble onto the cure for cancer or the meaning of life, so why should they continue to suffer?
People who commit suicide don’t want to win the race. They would prefer to drop out of the race altogether. If we extend the metaphor, I would never deign to force people to finish a race. If they get a really bad cramp, twist their ankle, or otherwise injure themselves, they can choose to stop running. It’s up to them.
With the risk of getting into a religious debate, why is murder never “OK”? I consider murder to be wrong only because the person being murdered doesn’t want to be killed. If the person being murdered wants to die, then I don’t see the problem. I guess that’s why I think assisted suicide is okay.
Cite?
I don’t understand why continuing to be miserable is somehow noble. It is your life, if you choose to opt out, that’s your business. Bad form to do it in an inconsiderate way that causes others pain and suffering, but generally those committing suicide aren’t real interested in other’s hypothetical pain, just stopping their own.
Of course, I also suscribe to the theory that you’ll just have to come back and do it all again anyway, so maybe that’s why it’s a non-issue for me.
Actually, Diogenes, the original question wasn’t just about terminal illness and suicide - I also used depression, loneliness, and mental illness as examples. Sorry for not being clearer about my question.
So, what are you doing to get Kevorkian out of jail. Can anyone here explain the injustice of keeping Kevorkian in jail. How can we organize to set him free? Does anyone know of any organization that is working to free him from jail.
WHY? yOU ASK?
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a chickens way out. Jeeze, we all have our bad days.
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Nobody can collect on your insurance policy
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who knows
This suicide thing has got to go.
Well…but that would assume you’re even interested in winning the race at the first place…If you think running is uninteresting and pointless, and that you’re not interested in whatever prize the winner will get, while would you try to reach the finish line, especially if it’s painful?
An individual should be able to decide when their life ends, as long as they do not infringe the rights of others in the process. Don’t kill yourself without making sure your dependents are going to be cared for. Don’t kill or injure others while pursuing your death wish. Don’t hang out on a bridge all day keeping others from their jobs, errands, and families.
Oh, well, since you put it that way, I’m sure no one else will ever commit suicide!
“Chicken’s way out,” indeed. If you’re suffering from a painful, terminal illness, can you tell me one reason why it is “cowardly,” rather than sensible, to turn up the morphine? What the hell is so brave and noble about putting yourself and your family through another year or two of needless suffering?
Now you are daring us to charge you for being dogmatic and categorical.
First you say Who knows? Then you turn around and categorically declare:
This suicide thing has got to go.
Do you know something we don’t know? If yes, please share. If no, what is your basis for making such a sweeping statement?
Remember Tyron Mannda’s quote: “Certainty” is that state of ignorance which has yet to recognize itself.