Superhero TV shows, changing character names

Cafe Society
1

I’m a long-time comic book fan, and now I’ve been watching Arrow on Netflix, and have seen the first three episodes of The Flash.

While I was never a reader of Green Arrow comics, I know enough about the character (mostly via references in various Justice League comics, and his guest appearances in the titles I do read/have read in the past) to have a “general” idea about him. When I first started watching the show, I thought it was kind of cool the way the writers transferred the “Speedy” nickname to Oliver Queen’s younger sister, along with the classic drug abuse storyline. Now that Roy Harper has semi-officially become Arrow’s “sidekick” in the show, I imagine he’s eventually going to go directly to becoming either Arsenal or Red Arrow, since they blatantly skipped his “Speedy” stage (which is a good thing; the era of teenaged sidekicks, aside from Robin, has passed). Though I’m kind of curious about why they decided to take the super-strength/invulnerability route with him. There’s nothing in the comic book source material to justify that, AFAIK. [EDIT: I’m actually more familiar with Speedy/Red Arrow than I am with Green Arrow, due to his membership in more recent versions of the Justice League.)

But the thing that puzzled me when I first started watching was the character of Laurel Lance. When I first saw her on the show, I assumed she was going to become Black Canary at some point, and I thought it was odd that they changed her name from “Dinah”. And then “Black Canary” finally shows up … in the form of Laurel’s younger sister, Anna.

And now, I’m in the middle of watching Season 2, Episode 13 … and we discover that Laurel and Anna’s mother is named Dinah.

So … WTF. They want to keep the name in there, but give it to a different character? Why? My first thought was that maybe the writers decided that the name, “Dinah”, just didn’t sound right for a 20-something woman in 2013-14. And yeah, it’s kind of an “old-fashioned” name, more suitable to somebody my mother’s age (my mother is 70). But then that theory was blown out of the water when I watched The Flash and saw that they decided to stick with the name, “Iris”, for Barry Allen’s love interest. Sure, they made the character African-American, which I don’t mind at all, because comics of old were entirely too white. But it’s odd to me that they would keep “Iris” but ditch “Dinah” (yeah, different shows, different writers, but same network and Flash is a spinoff from Arrow).

That said, I do know a 20-year-old named Iris. She’s named after her grandmother (who happens to be one of my “customers” at the retirement home where I cook). So maybe certain “old-fashioned” names are making a comeback, but not others.

So, any good theories on why they change the names?

2

This is less weird than it would seem; Black Canary and her mother are both called Dinah in the comics. TV changes people’s first names if there’s more than one in the story all the time, since I guess they expect us to be all befuddled when someone refers to one of them and we can’t possibly work out which one they mean.

Still odd because you’d think if they kept the name of one it would be the relatively important one, and change the mother’s name instead.

3

What I heard via word of internet (so, no sources, but it makes sense) is that Arrow was originally going to be a Dark Urban Avenger Of The Night. There weren’t supposed to be any costumed allies, so it was considered “cute” to repurpose the names of characters, since their super-hero identities wouldn’t show up anyway.

Around ep. 4 they realized that the more they had costumes, the more positive response they got. But by that point it was too late to undo some of the cutsie in-jokes.

Another “oopsie” is that Felicity Smoak is supposed to be Firestorm’s step-mom. They (for whatever reason) couldn’t use Oracle/Batgirl/Barbara Gordon so they dug Felicity up to fill the “brainy software girl”* role and de-aged her by 20 years…never thinking that Firestorm would be appearing in Flash in 2 more seasons.

*Interesting factoid; Felicity is the first character in comics who’s job was essentially “programmer”. Firestorm was fighting someone (Shrapel, maybe?) who was attacking Felicity’s software company and Firestorm made a giant horseshoe magnet to catch him. And fried all of Felicity’s stuff. She sued him for carelessness–it was actually pretty cool, because she wasn’t simply the crank bystander sues hero type–her complaint wasn’t that there was collateral damage, it’s that any idiot would know “Don’t create super-powerful giant magnets around software”. She likened it to a policeman using a hand-grenade to catch a crook, rather than just shooting him (or some similar analogy). She was suing him for carelessness/showboating. The suit was dropped when she figured out that Firestorm was her stepson-to-be.

4

Whoa, Felicity is genuinely out of the comics? I had assumed she was a “made for TV” character. And I’m in love with her.

5

There’s really no connection beyond the name and “good with computers”. The comics version of Felicity only had maybe 50 appearance in Firestorm.

6

Laurel’s sister on the show is Sarah, not Anna.

I don’t know how you feel about spoilers. This is a big spoiler about something meant to be surprising when it happens: Sarah dies at the start of the new season and it’s clear that Laurel will eventually take up the mantle of Black Canary.

This is not a surprise, but gives away part of the resolution of the plot line you’re currently watching: Roy doesn’t keep the mirakuru-based powers and eventually becomes just a junior-level version of Ollie. It hasn’t been explained so far how he became a master archer in just a few months, and it looks like we’re just supposed to forget that his previous fighting ability was due to the mirakuru.

7

They’ve stated more than once on the show that Laurel’s middle name is Dinah, though they’ve never explicitly said why she doesn’t use it like in the comics. Ever since Sarah showed up as the Canary I’ve figured something would happen to make Laurel take up the identity; I didn’t expect it to take three seasons, though.

8

That’s what I meant :smack:

(But it’s Sara, without the H)
and goddammit, I clicked on your first spoiler. Why do you hate me? I’ve done nothing to you.

9

I had no idea Firestorm would be on The Flash! Firestorm was the very first comic book that I really seriously collected. I will probably have to make a point of tuning in, particularly as I scan the show’s Wikipedia page and notice that it is drawing rather heavily on characters from that title. Firestorm’s nemesis Multiplex has already made an appearance, and a future episode is named after another villain that he faced, Plastique. Maybe they can throw in Killer Frost and Tokamak while they’re at it.

10

Killer Frost is one of Flash’s support team, Ronnie’s fiancee.

11

I thought this would be about Arrow, but not about the real names. I was wondering why “Green Arrow” is “the Arrow” and “Black Canary” is “the Canary”. Are adjectives not cool any more? The definite article seems to be in nowadays, though. There was a lot of “the Batman” in the recent Batman films.

I’m kind of a big fan of the TV show; despite knowing it’s not exactly great TV I look forward to the mindless fun more than I do a lot of “better” shows. I had never even heard of Green Arrow before the show, though, so I hope there won’t be too many spoilers in this thread.

12

Well, here it is, 4:35AM Pacific Daylight Time, and the only reason I’m still awake is Arrow. I’m mainlining this show on Netflix, 2nd season, so that I can pick up the 3rd season on the CW website. I can’t stop watching.I’m terrified that Felicity is going to die (she basically called if out) and now THea has gotten into a car with Slade …

13

I think the former can be explained mostly by the fact that the Green Lantern film had come out and bombed the previous year. Obviously the “Green” part would cause the audience to connect the two, and the new show would thus also bomb. (Entertainment executives are a cowardly and superstitious lot.)

I’m not a viewer, myself, but I do remember some of the early Arrow promos, where they were trying to distance themselves from a “superhero” concept—to the point where they even had the lead stating outright that “He’s a ‘hero,’ not a ‘superhero.’”

Part of that dovetails nicely with what Fenris mentions, above, and also with the regular speculation I hear among disgruntled DC fans online that WB seems to be generally embarrassed about the “silly comic book” nature of the source material, these days. Oddness.

14

I think that’s starting to change, or maybe has already. The Flash has totally embraced its “silly comic book” nature, and Arrow, while still more grounded (no actual superpowers so far this season) and adult that The Flash, has grown more comic-booky by leaps and bounds. At the same time, DC has a record four TV properties on the air (not counting animation) with plans for at least two more, including a Supergirl show, so maybe they figured out that TV executives want comic book stuff.

Even DC comic books themselves are embracing silliness once again. After years of reading about writiers and artists chafing under editorial mandates that made everything conform to the same horror-infused dark realism style, I read an interview with writer Keith Giffen that they are loosening the reigns and letting him basically do whatever he wants now, including tying his current Justice League 3000 more to his comedic farce stuff from the 80s and 90s than to the New 52 universe. They also revamped Batgirl with a new lighter tone and more cartoony art. There are even rumors that Superman may be getting his red briefs back soon

15

I assume this is because, for lack of a better term, Dinah is an old name, like Ruth, Barbara, or Rose. Although, Rose is becoming popular. Everyone has an Aunt Ruth or Aunt Rose, but how many were born in the last 30 years compared to the number of Ashelys or Jennifers or Emilys? My 70 year old mother is named Barbara, but I only ever met one other Barbara in school.

16

I’ve somehow completely missed hearing that on the show, but when her mother was called Dinah it jumped right out at me.

17

I just figured they were trying to distinguish this interpretation from the one who’d appeared in later seasons of Smallville.

18

I blame Smallville where Superboy was “the Blur” (formerly the Red-Blue Blur).

And now we have the Flash, on the show literally called the Flash, being called the Streak by everyone who isn’t a nefarious time traveler.

19

Well, OK, they’ve apparently given the name of Killer Frost’s secret identity to this character, but have they indicated that they’re going to actually make her Killer Frost at some point? I mean, that is what this whole thread is kind of about – taking the name of a character in a comic book and giving it to a new character on the show.

20

Firestorm’s gonna be a pain to write, he’s just too powerful.