Superman Returns - I Enjoyed It

I watched Superman Returns tonight for the first time. I’d heard all the negative stuff about it.

I don’t know what people are complaining about. I enjoyed it a lot. The pacing is a bit slow but I appreciated the time they took for character development. Especially with Superman and Lois getting reacquainted. I liked the way they developed Richard (Lois’ BF). He’s a standup guy, and pretty brave for a human that doesn’t wear blue tights. :smiley: He knows Lois loves Superman, but Richard doesn’t act bitter or angry. He’s there standing up for himself and their relationship.

I thought this version came the closest to matching the original 1970’s movie. They got the humor right. Clark was really good as the bumbling reporter. Kate Bosworth isn’t as good as Margo Kidder. But, she did a pretty good job.

My only concerns were some of the scenes with Superman’s X-Ray vision. That scene where he looks into Lois’ house, sees the people and hears the conversation seemed just a bit pervy. Sups used his X-Ray vision to spy on Lois a couple other times too.

I’m somewhat conflicted by Kevin Spacey’s Lex Luther. He seemed a bit one dimensional. His character needed more development. Given better material, I think Spacey could have added a lot more layers to Lex Luther.

Granted it’s not a slam, bam balls to the wall action flick. But, for me the characters and repressed love between Superman and Lois is what makes the franchise great. I’m not interested in seeing a guy in tights kick ass for 90 minutes. There’s plenty of action at the end. Heck Sups almost dies.

Rotten Tomatoes gave it a pretty decent rating.

Did you like the movie? Why are people saying it’s an embarrassment for Bryan Singer?
Here’s an interview with Bryan discussing Superman Returns.

I didn’t like it, but truth be told, I’m not sure there’s ever been a live-action Superman film I liked. At the very least, I’m kinda put off by the whole “messiah” thing, and Superman Returns had quite a lot of it.

These were my ideas at the time, and I stand by all of them:

Story improvement ideas:

More flashbacks. We see a young Clark bouncing around learning to fly for the first time, but the only significance the scene has is suggesting that when younger he needed glasses but reached a point when he didn’t. Aside from being kind of a rip-off of Spider-Man, this scene also suggest a parallel when the kid seems to stop needing his asthma inhaler. What the film needed was more than just that one flashback, to flesh out some of the story and help explain why Supes did split for a number of years.

New scene: Superman tries to save the plane but breaks off the wing instead. As he zooms after it, we zoom in on his worried face and then flashback to another scene of a young Clark. He’s in a barn with a younger Martha and a pre-dead Jonathan Kent. Something heavy is about to fall and squish Jon but Clark zooms in and yanks Jon to safety, smashing the falling threat (possibly a piece of farm equipment). He’d saved his father life, but injured Jon’s arm and destroyed the equipment when with a bit more control and less reflex, he could have avoid the injury and the damage. Jon gives Clark a brief fatherly talking-to about how his power is growing faster than his control and he has to be careful. “But don’t worry, Son. You’ll get there. All you need is time.” Cut back to the present and Superman’s face is now grim and determined. He zooms after the plane and saves it using delicate balancing and control.

Later on there’s another flashback, to an adult Clark in Smallville with Martha. He looks sad and beaten and there’s a Daily Planet headline reading “SUPERMAN DEFEATS INVADERS” and showing pictures of Terence Stamp, Sarah Douglas and Jack O’Halloran (the villains from Superman II).
Clark: They were from Krypton, too. It can’t be just me and them, we can’t have been the only survivors.
Martha: But there’s no way of knowing, Clark. You don’t even know where Krypton was.
Clark: [determined] Maybe I can find out.

Cut to slightly later flashback, news report of astronomers working with Superman’s help locating the remains of Krypton. Superman does say goodbye to Martha and Lois, saying this is something he has to do. The crystalline technology he’s used to build his ship will get his there in less than three years, in suspended animation. He has to find some artifact, he can’t possibly be the last son of Krypton.

During the scene where Supes lands on Luthor’s island and loses his powers, he gets beaten up. He tries to punch one of the goons but it’s barely a tap, since he’s used to tightly controlling his strength. Jonathan Kent’s lecture about control echoes in his ears. Suddenly, he punches one of the goons, very hard, with all his mortal strength. He begins beating all three severely, putting all his energy into it. For the first time, he doesn’t have to hold back. Luthor is a bit taken aback by this, but after Superman clobbers the third goon (and seeming to enjoy the experience of cutting loose), Luthor levels a gun on him and gives a brief speech along the lines of “You think it’s fun to be human? To feel pain and weakness and death.” The island shifts a bit, undergoing another growth spurt. Luthor smiles. “My baby’s growing up, and soon I’ll have power that men dream of. All I need is time.” Superman looks at him, looks at the island, then turns, runs and dives into the ocean. Luthor is somewhat surprised and vaguely troubled by this.

Lois and Richard, meanwhile, are flying their plane back to the island because Lois knows Supes is in big trouble. They find him, swimming and tired, nearly drowned, trying to get as far from the island as possible, hoping his powers will return before he collapses of exhaustion. They pick him up and he weakly tells them to fly him to STAR labs or some other high-tech facility. Shortly, Superman (his power returning but not yet at maximum) is picking out the facility’s best radiation suit. “What are you going to do?” ask Lois. “I have to get that thing off of Earth. It’s what [dramatic music] destroyed Krypton,” replies Supes. “Wait, Superman” says an earnest lab tech, “The suit is designed for radiation protection. It’s not a spacesuit. It’ll never stand up to the stresses.”

Supes, suited, tries anyway. He lifts the island of Earth but his radiation suit starts to shred. Supes clearly gets weaker and weaker and just barely pushes the island away before falling back to Earth, the radiation suit burning off of him. He plunges to Earth.

Later, he has the same scene in the kid’s room, except in addition to the “father/son” stuff, he also says to the sleeping kid that he’ll have the kind of power men dream of. All he needs is time.

Geez, when will Hollywood learn to run their scripts by here first? That was great, Bryan! I don’t know if it would have been enough to make it a good movie, but it would have sucked a whole lot less!

I’m always amazed when someone can take a terrible movie and show how a few changes would have improved it significantly.

I kinda liked it, too. But I agree** Bryan Ekers**'s version would be a large improvement.

And the stuff he is fixing is exactly why people think it was bad. For once, people seem to care about all the plotholes and lack of pathos–probably because, as you said, it didn’t have a lot of action to fall back on.

Still, as I said, I liked it. But it could have been so much better.

It needed a giant spider.

And no, I’m not joking here. Superman needed to fight something that wasn’t an inanimate object. A giant spider, while hardly the best solution, would at least have been an improvement.

The original cut of the movie actually did flesh out his return to Krypton and the reasons for it.

Here’s the original opening scene (it starts about one minute in): - YouTube

Luthor tricked him somehow into leaving Earth. It was apparently a pretty big plot point that was cut out and the main reason Kal Penn has almost no lines.

Bryan Ekers’ suggestions certainly would have improved the film, but ultimately in order to make a decent movie, I think you’d have to a) overhaul the cast, b) get rid of the emo crap and c) ditch the entire premise they went with - Luthor getting out of prison on a technicality when Superman failed to show up at his parole hearing, and then devising another crackpot real estate scheme by creating islands out of kryptonite.

It’s just not that interesting, it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense if you think about it and it’s just too similar to what they’ve done before. At least his scheme in the '78 Donner film, as crazy as it may have been, had a certain logic to it, in a Goldfingeresque supply-and-demand kind of way.

And, if Kevin Smith is to believed, pushing Jon Peters out of the way probably wouldn’t have hurt either.

I expect an earthquake powerful enough to destroy southern California would sufficiently devastate the world’s economy that land titles won’t be nearly as valuable as canned food and shotguns.

The film made me feel sorry for Luthor. I mean, he was up against a guy who could throw an *ISLAND *into SPACE. What chance did he have?

Superman Returns is what I think of as the ideal DVD movie. Though it has vast amounts of dreck and, as a whole, fails as a movie, there are several extremely enjoyable scenes which are simply not to be missed. I specifically refer to the airplane rescue, the disasters in Metropolis, and the entire sequence beginning with Jason trying to rescue Lois and her son and ending with Superman putting them in their plane.

In addition, there’s a good movie in there. I think it’s basic problems are fourfold:

  1. Over-reliance on the source material. I don’t mean the comics here; I mean Superman: The Movie. In many places, SR is just a remake with better special effects, and the time used in doing that is time that would have been better used in other places. The disasters in Metropolis, for instance, should have been considerably longer, and either the flying-with-Lois scene or the night-of-crimefighting could have been shortened to accommodate that.

  2. Jarrying casting. Basically, the three leads are all too young for their parts, especially the young woman who played Lois, who looks about sixteen – far too young to be a star reporter, Pulitzer-prize winner, and mother of a kindergartener. Parker Posey is perfect, though. That said, all might have worked if the story were presented as being at the very beginning of Superman’s and Lois’s career rather than several years into it, and if the son were removed.

  3. Wrong-genre complications. As I wrote back when the movie first came out, Superman acts consistently dickish in this movie. That doesn’t work for Supes the way it can for Batman, because Superman, really, should be a moral paragon; anything else is jarring. It could have worked if anyone in-movie (other than Lois, that is) had called him on it, and he’d ever acknowledged how selfish he had been. At least in Superman II, he himself acknowledges at the end that he had erred in trying to become mortal.

  4. Internal inconsistency. I don’t buy that he could pick up an island made up of Kryptonite. It’s supposed to be a great, heroic feat of willpower, but it’s too jarring.

:: shrugs ::

That doesn’t bother me. Superhero universes have different laws of physics; why should plate tectonics work the same way? Supes is well educated, and he immediately saw where Lex’s scheme was going and thought it would work

Well, Luthor was planning on killing billions just for profit and laffs. Hard to feel sympathy there.

Yeah, I know, but look at it this way: here was a guy, armed just with his own brain and a bit of cash, who came close to taking down a god. It’s hard not to feel some sympathy for the underdog who tries to beat the odds.

I did not hate it, but it was more boring than any superhero movie should be.

I’d forgive everything if it were more interesting. I mean, Superman 1 has a horrible plot filled with problems, but I forgive it because it was interesting and fun, especially for the time.

Sure it is, if the underdog’s plans require murdering billions of people who just happened to be there.

Look, we’re talking Lex Luthor here. There’s no way he couldn’t have found a less-destructive way to use Kryptonian tech. He embraces the plan he did because it amuses him. His Prometheus analogy fails because he’s not trying to improve the lot of humanity; he’s trying to demonstrate his superiority to Superman and make a fortune for himself.

Do you doubt that, if the little boy had been susceptible to Kryptonite, that Lex would have murdered him right there?

I thought the opening plane rescue was perfectly executed and was the best big screen portrayal of superman being superman in any of the movies.

Then came Lex and the rest of the dumb movie. It really felt like a rehash of the first movie in almost every way.

There were edit problems. In spite of being 159 minutes, I found Luther’s plan with the Crystals very muddled. Why did they produce a huge EMF that killed all electronics? That test in the basement didn’t make sense to me. He had a huge model set built. Not sure why.

There was one unexpected intimate moment I didn’t expect in a Superman film. When he offered to fly her around. Lois removes her shoes and steps up on his feet. Clearly a practiced move. The first indication that their relationship was deeper than she admitted to Richard.

All jokes aside. I don’t think sex between Superman and a human is possible. The chances of getting crushed or speared :smiley: is too risky. Supes has to handle humans like they are eggs. One slip in concentration and there’s a yellow puddle in his hand.

Go ahead. Link to it.

You know you want to.

I’m a fan of the original Donner film and I loved Superman Returns. I only saw it recently, too, expecting to hate it based on others’ complaints, but I’ll take this over the “real” Superman III any day.

Problem is, Routh immediately caps it by reassuring the folks on that plane with his dead-on impression of Christopher Reeve hoping that this hasn’t put you off flying; statistically speaking, it’s still the safest way to travel. It’s physically impossible to hear that homage without thinking of a bigger and more confident Superman giving that classic smile as he catches first Lois and then a helicopter plummeting off the roof of the Daily Planet building…

I will tolerate a certain amount of bad physics (warp drive and whatnot) as part of suspension of disbelief. But the plane rescue was bad, just ridiculous, because Lois should have been chunky salsa from the beginning. The first time I saw the movie in the theatre I thought that Singer was trying to make a point about how Superman doesn’t understand mechanical flight, to explain how he had so much difficulty in landing the plane (although I enjoyed the actual landing from the moment when the plane is noticed by the people on the ground, to the actual landing, to that great cheer that goes up an instant later – loved that!). This is a problem I have with Superman in general: he is exactly as strong as we need him to be. Why couldn’t he have slowly, carefully leveled out the plane and then guided it to an airfield somewhere? Because he was vamping. He needed to “return” in a big, flashy, heroic way.

You ought to be able to make exciting stories about a man who is brilliant and has godlike superpowers, but keeps being hampered by his own innocence. He had such a happy, stable upbringing that he can’t quite see around corners WRT the bad guys and so he can’t outwit them before they do anything bad.

Lex Luthor is an idiot. Really. How does he think he is going to kill possibly billions of people and live on an ugly rock in the middle of the ocean? The world would hunt him down and kill him. Even Superman would be forgiven if he picked Luthor up and just dropped him from space.

I hated that the kid was one of those sickly kids who’s allergic to everything. Why do that? I also think Superman is old-school enough that he would not have a sexual relationship outside of marriage, and I felt this way back when Superman II was released too.

Routh was okay, but no Christopher Reeve.

Lifting the island made out of, oh what was it, oh yeah, mother-fucking KRYPTONITE was what killed it for me. Up until then I was fairly entertained. I mean, the movie basically defined Deus Ex Machina. Dragon Ball Z had better plot resolutions…