Survivor 4/17/03 (No spoilers in OP)

I had some analysis that I did not put into last week’s thread, so I will start up the new one.

I want to start off with a realization that I had. I think it is strong enough to perhaps become a Bloomberg rule: “Keep a Clay around”. You want to go to the jury against a very unpopular player, such as Clay was last season.

I think Roger would have made a perfect candidate. Instead of voting him out, everybody should have been trying to keep him. I believe Matt is similar now that Roger is gone.

My second observation is that I think Rob made a mistake in not going along with Deena’s idea to get Alex. He could have used the ill will Deena’s plot created to get her next week, and gotten rid of a strong player (Alex). Why do I call Alex a strong player? See below.

In trying to analyize strategy, I have listed all possible final pairs and jurys. Right now, I don’t know what happens to get to the final 2, and some of the preferences could be based on that. For example, I think that Rob could go to the bottom of Deena’s preference list. She might respect her old co-plotter, but I think she might be mad at him for turning on her instead of Alex.

In general, I think it is hardest to guess how people will view Rob, since if he gets to the final 2 it is due to his own machinations. Contrast if the final is Butch and Christie for example. This would probably come about by the schemers going after each other and B,C winning several immunities.

I have tried to estimate how much each potential juror likes the potential winners. The results are in the table below. I have used some general assumptions: Christy and Jenna really don’t like each other. The women seemed freaked out by Matt. In the table below, the number indicates how much the person listed first likes the listed person.
Potential Jurors

Butch:Christy 52, Matt 51, Rob, 49, Alex 48, Jenna 40,Heidi (I’m not looking) 20
Alex: Jenna 80, Heidi 65, Rob 60, Christy 55, Matt 50, Butch 40,
Matt: Butch 50, Alex 49, Rob 48, Christy 47, Heidi 46, Jenna 45
Rob: Jenna 70, Heidi 65, Alex 50, Butch 40, Matt 30, Christy 29
Christy:Butch 60, Alex 59, Rob 50, Matt 20, Heidi 5, Jenna 0
Heidi:Jenna 70, Alex 50, Rob 45, Butch 40, Christy 30, Matt 25
Jenna: Heidi 71, Alex 70, Rob 40, Butch 25, Matt 20, Christy 0

Already Jurors

Deena: Butch 70, Alex 60, Rob 50??, Matt 41, Christy 40, Heidi 20, Jenna 19
Dave: Heidi 90, Jenna 80, Christy 70, Butch 65, Matt 50, Rob 30, Alex 29
Using the above preferences, I get these jury results:

Listed is a final pair, and the people I think would vote for each member of the pair


Butch C, De, Da, M
Alex H, J, R

Butch R,C,H,J,De,Da
Matt A

Butch C,De,Da,M
Rob A,H,J,

Butch M,R,H,J,De
Christy A,Da

Butch M,C,De
Heidi A,R,J,Da

Butch M,C,De
Jenna A,R,H,Da


Alex R,C,H,J,De
Matt B,Da

Alex M,C,H,J,De
Rob B,Da

Alex M,R,H,J,De
Christy B,Da

Alex M,C,B,De
Heidi R,J,Da

Alex B,M,C,De
Jenna R,H,Da


Matt B,Da
Rob A,C,H,J,De

Matt R,J,De,
Christy B,A,H,Da

Matt B,C,De
Heidi A,R,J,Da

Matt B,C,M
Jenna A,R,H,Da


Rob A,M,H,J,De
Christy B,Da

Rob B,M,C,De
Heidi A,J,Da

Rob B,M,C,De
Jenna A,H,Da


Christy B,M,De
Heidi A,R,J,Da

Christy B,A,M,De
Jenna H,R,Da


Heidi M,C,De,Da
Jenna B,A,R

I get
Butch 4, Alex 5, Matt 0, Rob 4, Christy 2, Heidi 4, Jenna 2

This analysis confirms my intuition that Alex is the strongest and Matt the weakest.

Thus, I think that instead of fooling Matt, Rob should genuinely ask Matt, Butch and Christy to help him vote off Alex. Assuming Alex gets immuinity, get rid of Jenna as being the person most likely to not want to get rid of Alex.

What does the board think of my preference lists? Can anybody make an argument for no-transitive preferences? That is, name some player who would pick A over B, B over C, but also C over A in a final 2?

Many of my 4-3 votes I am not very confident of. What votes do you think I have wrong?

Wow. You put way too much work into that. :smiley:

And the strategy you ended up with was the one I proposed near the end of last week’s thread. Go me!!

Wow, that’s a lot of analysis. Especially since tomorrow night’s show is a highlights/recrap episode. :smiley:

BTW, I think you’re right that Rob will try to put together a counter-alliance with Matt, Christy, and Butch. As it stands with the New Gang of Four, he’s a dead man at F4, and maybe even before that. Rob knows how the game is played, and will realize that he’s better off as a strong player in a RMCB alliance than the odd man out in JHAR. Plus, he’s already got his Clay in the form of Matt.

Whether he can pull it off or not remains to be seen. Rob jumps ship an awful lot, so he’s always on the edge of plotting and scheming too much.

Sorry, I’m not going to even try to get my head around all that. I kind of skimmed it…I’m curious why you think Matt likes Butch and Alex better than Rob. I haven’t gotten that impression.

I gave my impression of why I don’t think Rob should have jumped ship. But even assuming I’m wrong about the long term consequences to him, I doubt it would have mattered in last week’s vote if he had voted for Alex.

His vote would only have made it 5-3. If you suppose that he could have swayed two more votes (Butch and Matt) then it would have worked, but I don’t think that’s a safe assumption, with Alex, Jenna and Heidi pulling the other way. More importantly, I don’t think Rob himself would see it as a safe assumption. I don’t see him as a big risk taker. I

Dammit. Didn’t mean to hit submit.

ahem

…I don’t see him as a big risk taker. I think he played it safe and cut his losses with Deena. Probably the smart way to go, IMO.

If he now jumps ship yet again, nobody will trust him again. Assuming anyone does now…

Anyway, my prediction: I’m sad to say it, and I’ll miss her, but I think Christy goes next. (I hope I’m wrong.)

Um…one more thing. (Sorry about the multiple posts.)

This season’s Clay: I think Rob may be it. And I think maybe he knows it, and is counting on it. And it’s his best hope for the million. He’ll make a better Clay than Clay was, because he’s not as obnoxious. And he’ll benefit from the fact that nobody this season is a Brian also.

Maybe it’s because I dislike him, but I think people are giving Rob to much credit over his decision to turn on Deena. My guess, from what we’ve seen of his personality, is he did it because he didn’t what his “cool friends” to get made at him. Especially the cool friends with breasts.

Here’s my theory on what will happen (and please note, it’s a theory based only on what’s been seen on the show, so no spoilers involved). The New Gang of Four vote off Matt, Christy, and Butch (in that order). Alex, Heidi, and Jenna all realize that Rob’s a dweeb and the least likely to draw votes, so all three want to ally with him. Heidi and Jenna convert Rob to their side by licking their lips, and the three of them vote off Alex. Heidi and Jenna then face off against each other in the final endurance round with Rob taking a dive. Heidi, with her combination of intelligence and athletic strength, loses to Jenna. Rob, openly gleeful that his master plan has worked so well, is surprised when he becomes the first finalist to lose a million dollars in a 7-0 vote.

Oh, I agree, that’s definitely a part of it. Maybe even most of it. But I think strategy enters into it as well. Rob’s no genius, but he’s cunning. I think the fact that he’d get to spend more time with boobalicious Heidi & Jenna and cool-guy Alex helped him rationalize turning on his ally Deena, but it was still (IMO) the best course available to him.

But then, maybe my judgement is colored by the fact that I do sort of like him. He’s a dork, he’s not very nice, and he’s got some serious social issues…but I still find him kind of entertaining.

Okay, I’ll say it.

I think Rob is hilarious. My buddy Roger and I laugh our asses off at him.

“The only contest Roger could win would be…what kind of prune is this?”…“the gnats are in a holding pattern above my head…I didn’t rub my head in anything…there’s no food in my hair…”

The guy cracks me up and I’d just laugh my ass off if he won.

Ooo, but I like Christy a lot, too. Of course, that’s because I want to kiss her.

Heidi is nasty. Just nasty. Jenna is okay but still a ding dong. Matt is scary and is starting to look like the mask from Scream (movie). Butch is just Butch.

Tibs.

It’s true. I wish they wouldn’t do this anymore.

Yeah, I hate the recap episode, especially since it’s never any new footage. If it was all new stuff, I’d like it, but it’s always just a boring re-hash of things we’ve already seen. :rolleyes:

Grrr stupid recaps.

Do they ever show us anything worthwhile?

Oh well, I guess it’s Friends and Scrubs or This Old House Hour instead.

Oh, and I still hold by my opinion that the game is Jenna’s to lose. For someone in such a good position, and who ran out the previous front-runner, she sure doesn’t get much credit.

Rob didn’t try to save Deena because he couldn’t without risking everything. Rob is not that sort, if previous shows are any proof.

Next week, the smart vote is Christy or Matt. Robb really needs to try and save Matt to have any shot at all.

Rob is definitely cunning but he must be a total dolt.

This guy is running his mouth about people that he WILL see at the end. Does this guy have a deathwish? Is he that socially inept not to keep certain things to himself? I don’t think it’s all for camera or face time. This guy is going to be beat up, I sure would love to pound his face in. He is funny though, but in the end, funny aint gonna erase all that insulting comments about people’s intelligence, appearance, etc…

I’m rooting for Butch, Matt and not to my liking Christy. The underdogs need to find a way to win. They need to wake up and play the game for the first time.

A recap show? crap, i guess it’s Scrubs and Whose Line for me. I thought it was gonna be a new one, they showed clips of dissent and the Boobie twins crying and hugging on the “in next” episode last week didn’t they?

Tiburn:

I agree. I think Rob is hilarious. His soliloquies probably have more to do with his eventual post-survivor career than any post-survivor friendships. Didn’t he say something like: “I’ll never see any of these people again after the show”? He’s got to be carefull, though about switching sides too often.

Someone needs to make sure the Hiede/Jenna coalition (of the willing) doesn’t lock them into the final 2. They seem pretty committed to each other. Although, if they do get to the final 2, we could see some very interesting scenes of how the celibrate together…

I agree that the recap shows are generally worthless. Basically a repeat of who got voted off with a couple of new scenes thrown in. Those of you who decided to skip it didn’t miss much. Although the footage of the women doing nude aerobics was kind of interesting. I never imagined Shawna was so flexible.

Rob; could he be any more pathetic? Admitting on national television that an attractive woman’s never been willing to talk to him unless he was paying her. And considering the way Heidi and Jenna are playing him for the million, I guess his streak is unbroken.

I think the big lesson we saw here was the danger of over-confidence. Rodger and Deena were both sure they were safe going into the tribal councils that voted them out. Dave knew he was in trouble the week he went, but prior to that he was sure he was part of a winning team. His mistake was figuring he could ignore the people he thought were no longer important (like Christy).

I’m also looking forward to the post-game show. In addition to seeing what Matt’s reaction is to what Rob has been saying behind his back, we’ll also get to see how the women feel about Jeanne’s manioc prank.

Usually I hate the recap shows – but this time there was actually something I missed on the first run. My family always watches the show together: me, my husband, both our kids, and my parents. And we haven’t missed any episodes this run, we thought. But somehow we all totally missed Jeanne making the maggot-balls and serving them to the girls… That was a scream. Did the other girls ever find out about it?

BWAAAAA-hah-hah! True, but funny.

Jess: The reason we didn’t see the bit about the maggot-balls was because they didn’t show it the first time. That was during the episode that they foreshadowed by saying, “Tonight you’ll see something we’re surprised hasn’t happened before.” They then showed Shawna begging her friends to vote her off, and we all assumed that was it, but in reality, what happened that hasn’t happened before is that Jeanne tried to poison her entire tribe because they pissed her off.

I loved Rob’s comment about Heidi having “natural and man-made beauty…”

I liked the bit with Dave teaching Christy to swing dance. That was kinda cute, but I was glad she knew enough to pick up that he was just being nice to her to avoid be voted off.