I don’t know if this is the tragedy of the commons or a statement about the Cold War. Maybe I’m just commenting on vehicles, most of which are now car based, therefore not notably different than passenger cars.
You get big car. I get bigger.
I’d just like to make a plea to all the SUV drivers in this thread to please not tailgate at night!
Or during the day, but at night especially. Something most SUV drivers I encounter driving at night tend to forget that their headlights shine directly into the back windows of smaller cars
Gah!
Actually, I think that’s what makes me despise SUV’s so much. Even in oncoming traffic, their headlights can be blinding. Before the whole “SUV boom” it wasn’t as big of a deal because every other car on the freakin’ road wasn’t an SUV.
It frosts my cookies to think the only way to not drive half blinded at night is to get an SUV my damn self, so I’m at least on the same level as 60% of the cars on the road. Unfortunately, most of my driving occurs on windy, hilly roads that are much easier to handle in a smaller car. Coupled with the fact that I do a lot of driving so it would be idiotic to be driving a gas guzzler, an SUV is out of the question for me.
Guess I’ll just have to live with being constantly blinded by damn SUVs.
Taxman, nice to see you’re fulfilling the image of Americans being extremely self-centered and caring only about themselves, thanks muchly. If your wife happens to crash into a car and utterly demolish it, like SUVs with their significantly higher bumpers tend to do, it’ll be of great comfort that at least your wife is ok. It doesn’t matter that the driver of the other car is severely injured, they should have bought an SUV too eh?
Oh, and I’m also assuming you didn’t look at any of the links I posted, so here are a few choice paragraphs that some of you can look over if you like. All bolding/italics are mine. Sorry for the spam, but I’m hoping this makes people actually read some of the info I’m trying to get across.
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/EETD-SUV-Safety.html
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=770&scid=114
Yes, because all Americans drive around in giant SUV’s. And WHOA! reality suddenly warped, and now a Grand Am is an SUV!
:wally
Ummmm…, Spoofe, are you talking to yourself? Maybe your sarcasm is too much for my mind to grasp, but I think you just ‘putzed’ yourself. I never said anything about everyone driving SUVs.
Now, on the other hand, it’d be nice if you actually addressed the issues provided rather than try for sarcastic ad hominem attacks. We’ve already pointed out that 1) SUVs are no safer than any passenger car and 2) they actually pose a hazard to other cars and endanger the lives of others on the road.
Well, SPOOFE, you gotta admit, taxguy is the very embodiment of the sterotypical “me me ME!” American image…
[sub]And I’m not just talking about this thread…[/sub]
TaxGuy said:
And…
As other posters have pointed out, if it were merely a question of convenience, I would just be griping, like I do about those people who press the elevator buttons repeatedly, as if somehow it will force the elevator into Sonic-Speed Mode.
But safety is definitely involved - as I said, part of the reason my mom bought one is so she can see better (with the other SUV’s) and so she feels safer. But her safety comes at the cost of mine. I drive a smaller car, and am more likely to be injured/ killed by a crash with an SUV. If I choose jump off my building, it’s my own fault if I get hurt - I made the decision to risk my health. But I didn’t choose the increased risk (yes, I understand that driving is inherently dangerous) that driving + SUV’s produces.
You’re valuing your wife’s life as greater than mine, which is understandable on a theoretical level, but sinister on a literal one. You “had the money”? Hey, look over there! Isn’t that Jonathan Swift?
How on earth do you fit 8 foot boards and 12 foot ladders in a Nissan Pathfinder? (sorry not a sarcastic question, an honest one, Pathfinders seem kinda small for that to me, did you mean on the roof rack?).
PS, If I were EVER to drive an SUV it wouldn’t be a Pathfinder, my boyfriends mom has one, and that was the vehicle I got to drive while helping her move a bunch of stuff.
OUCH, the damn seats are hard as ROCKS!!!
My I’ve never driven a car in my entire life that had such uncomfortable seats. Don’t they hurt your butt?
I also work in the environmental industry, we use either pickups or “cubies” to haul our equipment, I can’t imagine fitting a zodiac raft in the back of a Pathfinder like you can a cubie!!
quote:
Originally posted by lucwarm
The reality is that SUV’s are a tremendous inconvenience to other drivers.
I agree. It’s not as if a person is CONSISTANTLY, ALL day LONG pulling out of side roads and being blocked by an SUV, or constantly parking in parking lots several times a day and not being able to get out of their car because of an SUV.
Heck, I drive an old caddy (for safety as well as comfort and road stability her on the icy roads of Alaska), and while it’s not as big as the monsters of the 70s it’s a fair sized auto.
And come ON, there are many times when I park at the store, or at the university, in between two big ole SUVs, and despite MY car’s size, I don’t have any trouble getting in and out of my car (unless the person has parked after I went in, and parked on or over the line).
Occasionally they’ll block my view while I try to turn out of a parking lot or from a side road, but it’s not what I would call “tremendous”. More like momentary and slight.
Heck, I don’t like them much, but it’s because I think they’re ugly completely without style or originality, and that in many cases people who own them ARE doing it just for the status and do seem to be ruder than the average driver etc…
Anyway, it’s kindof silly to say that they’re a “tremendous” inconvenience to other drivers.
But they really are. There have been many occasions where I’ve been trying to pull out of a lot with a right turn, and there’s an SUV on my left trying to go left. Of course he’s so far into the damn road I can’t see past him, so I have to edge pretty much into traffic to see if I can go or not.
My friend has also had experiences where bad parkers have made it so they more or less take up two spaces, where one should suffice. And sometimes, even when properly parked, there is still hardly enough room to nudge your way in between two of 'em, though I do admit this is very uncommon.
From aurelian:
Yes, you DID choose the increased risk by driving the smaller car. If you are so terrified of getting smushed by your mom’s SUV, then buy a used Cadillac and drive that boat around. Period. You say your mom’s choice of cars affects you, but your choice of car does as well. This is the United States - you are free to make your own priorities. Is your priority driving an efficient car or being safe from an SUV impact?
And how much should your decision affect me (or anyone else?) You make your decision based on your priorities - not mine, not anyone elses. I make my decision based on my priorities. Your mom makes a decision based on hers - but you completely discount your mom’s safety. With your mom sitting higher won’t she be able to avoid an accident that might have happened if she was in a station wagon? Where does the “extra visibility” of SUV drivers figure into the “they smash small cars” equation?
The question here is choice…freedom, even. SUVs are popular in the US…people like them, and manufacturers make them. The argument against them seems to be that you are somehow taking something away from other drivers.
We’re talking about the US (and the UK, so far)…you are not issued vehicles. You choose what vehicle (if any) to drive. You weigh the pros and cons of everything you can afford, and then you make a choice.
You (and only you) can determine what is most important to you in a vehicle. You make that choice, and then you drive it. If you don’t like what you have, then change it. Repeat until you get it right.
But don’t tell me (or anyone else) to change that very same decision process to take better care of you. THAT is the definition of selfish.
The level of inconvenience is a matter of opinion. It does seem pretty clear though that a lot of car drivers find SUV’s to be very annoying.
And if you make a jerkish choice, folks are free to point it out.
Choosing an SUV merely to satisfy your own vanity is a jerkish choice. This doesn’t change if you try to fool yourself or others that you made your jerkish choice because of safety.
Same way I do it in the Beetle. Lots and lots of twine. Yes, a deflated Zodiac and fifteen horse outboard fits in it, too.
That’s oversimplifying things. It’s about the bigger picture, and it’s about trends.
30 years ago, people drove sedans or station cars. There were no such things a minivans, and barring exceptions like the early Range Rovers, SUV’s didn’t exist (and I’m insulting the RR here, as it’s a proper off roader as well, unlike most SUV’s). Granted, US cars were always bigger than European cars. But cars on either side of the pond were smaller than they are now. Lighter, too! My current car (a small station wagon) weighs as much as the much larger sedan my father had when I was a little boy.
So, we have a trend of cars getting bigger, heavier, less economical (the trend reversed in the early 90’s or thereabouts: before that, cars were getting better and better in terms of gas mileage), and taller. In the case of SUV’s, the “taller” aspect means that a lot of people find them a nuisance on the road because you can’t see “through” them like you can with normal cars. Also, SUV’s use a lot more fuel than a “normal” sedan or station wagon, what with their non-existant aerodynamics and large engines, needed because of all that weight.
Now, I’m not an SUV hater per se. If, like the OP, you genuinely need a car like that, go right ahead. And like a lot of posters correctly state, not all purchases are based on need alone. If I admire that Ferrari from afar, I have to take that ugly SUV blocking my view in stride: someone bought it, maybe because they need it, or maybe because they think it’s pretty/cool/impressive. I don’t get the status of an SUV, but I don’t get people who buy Mariah Carey albums either. Yet, people do.
But if the trend is that an increasingly large number of vehicels on the road are large, hard to see around, heavy, and uneconomical, then I’d say that’s a bad trend. No, I am not going to call people selfish, or jerks, because they bought an SUV. But the bigger trend is not something I find positive.
And lo and behold, the unthinkable happens: I fully agree with Brutus on the biodiesel, although probably for vastly different reasons. There’s a biodiesel pilot going on in Holland right now: can’t wait until I can get that stuff at the regular pump. I’m sure my little Citroën would love it. 
I would love to find out just how you “know” this.
We will need to harness your psychic powers for the good of Mankind.
Maybe the reason few pick on minivans is that they are dorky-looking and people feel sorry for the folks that are presumably forced to drive around a van that’s just got to be full of screaming kids, even if it isn’t. And pickups have a blue-collar image (increasingly false these days) and could be driven by a good ol’ country boy who’ll go upside your head if you get snarky with him. So the venom is largely reserved for SUVs. It’s all an image thing. And it’s stupid.
On the energy front, we all have choices to make in terms of lifestyle and distance from work, which affect our consumption of fuel. If you drive a Honda Accord (or, for that matter, if you walk to work), you may wish to feel smug and superior about that person in the SUV. Of course, if the SUV driver has fewer children and makes a variety of intelligent choices about consumption and the environment which you do not, then your reason for feeling smug has flown out the window.
The people who whine about SUVs and plaster accusatory stickers on them would be better served just working for safer vehicles (and this is happening) and better overall fuel standards, for “light trucks” as well as cars.
The inane and inaccurate sociopolitical assumptions that go into SUV-bashing* only serve to highlight the bizarre resentments and fears of dolts.
*and I don’t drive an SUV, save for the few occasions that I take Mrs. J’s small SUV out to hunt prey on the neighborhood byways.
Nobody ever mentions the stopping distance of SUV’s…which is considerably longer and therefore more dangerous than a smaller car. More weight=longer stopping distance. Not to mention the fact that, to make soccer moms happy, SUV’s are designed to handle like cars. But they aren’t cars, and half the people driving them have never driven anything but cars til it became cool to drive an SUV…and thus they have no knowledge of the extra care and vigilence required to handle a vehicle twice as heavy…which is part of the reason why they roll over so often and so easily. Their center of gravity is higher than a car’s, so they cannot be driven as tightly and easily without flipping/going out of control, etc.
But the Mom who used to drive a Volvo station-wagon doesn’t know any of this, of course. She just knows she’s “higher” and she “feels safer.”
And meanwhile, her chances of killing somebody in that monstrosity are significantly higher than they were in the Volvo.
But hey, you know what, it’s her right as an American to own and operate it…I’m not sure how, but SUV’s somehow became tied up with patriotism, b/c people who defend them always seem to trot out “Hey, it’s a free country, I can drive whatever I want and fuck you if you say otherwise!”…so who cares?
Sorry, my psychic powers will only be used for my own nefarious purposes. And you’re exactly right (and in agreement with me, to some extent) as to why we don’t pick on minivans. I don’t know a single person who bought a minivan to look cool, I know a whole bunch of people who bought SUVs because they’re cool. If I’m inconvenienced by a minivan at least I can feel secure in the knowledge that the owner really needed that big vehicle. Not so with SUVs.
I’d bet that 90% of people consider themselves above average drivers, they’re not. You may think that she is safer than the average SUV driver, lot of people involved in rollovers surely thought the same of themselves. You might be right, and she might be that extra safe driver, however, on the average, SUVs aren’t safer, not for the SUV driver, and definitely not for the other drivers on the road.
Not to mention, while I’m thinking about it, that there’s a slight irony to the fact that the “safety” of the SUV is often its greatest recommendation…even as polar ice caps are melting.
I’m sorry, but it makes little sense to me to focus on the safety of the children in the SUV while its emissions are contributing to the destruction of the world they’ll inherit. Sure, we all are, to one degree or another…but it seems, somehow, really self-indulgent to drive around in something that gets abhorrent gas mileage, does not have to adhere to the same emissions standards as cars, and is still used by the majority of its owners as a car, not the “work vehicle” standards it is held to.
I dunno. Just a thought. :dubious:
The Moral Of This Story: Don’t piss off your Mom.
(…And would it kill you to call her once in a while?)