Sylvia Browne, Psychic

Factual Questions
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don willard: Have you spent much time in the Great Debates forum on this board? I think you will see quite a bit of ‘debunking’ of standard religions if you read back through the older threads.

However, I think one reason you don’t see a lot of ‘debunking’ regarding ‘standard’ religions is that there is usually less potential for harm to the believers. For example, one of my concerns with the Sylvia Browne organization is the use of ‘hypnotic regression’ by her ‘ministers’. This goes beyond presenting a particular philosophy that appeals to a large group of people - this is tampering with minds by people who have not even had any professional training in this area. ‘False Memory Syndrome’ and hypnotic manipulation have already been the cause of a great deal of grief in many people’s lives (lots of stuff out there about alleged child abuse and satanic ritual abuse, etc.). How much potential harm might these people do to people who are already emotionally fragile and seeking answers to unanswerable questions?

Well, I think this is more of a debate than is appropriate for GQ. You might like to start something on this topic over in GD - it should be interesting! I believe I’m going to wander over there myself later to discuss some info I’ve found concerning Near Death Experiences.

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Oops! Coding brainfart! Sorry for the excessive bolding, folks. Entirely unintentional, I assure you.

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Auntie Pam: The best skeptic’s site on Edgar Cayce is probably the one posted by pldennison. A Dogpile search turned up tons of stuff, so if you’re interested in reading more about him, there is plenty out there! Apparently he still has quite a following, and his books, etc. are still selling well.

If you want to take a quick look at the ‘believer’ side, thr official Edgar Cayce association is A.R.E. - the Association for Research and Enlightment - located here: A.R.E. .

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Thanks, coosa.

I have some literature from the A.R.E. around here somewhere, from back when my first husband was sick, and asked me to write to them for Cayce’s remedies for lung ailments. The ingredients were pretty exotic, but I’ve often wondered if any of it would have helped.

If I don’t quit smoking pretty soon, maybe I’ll get a chance to find out.

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I never used to post much, for the same reasons you don’t linger there either. Lotsa noise, low signal (yeah, I know, that could probably go for me too!). But I do get mentioned from time to time.

[ ianzin blushes at his faint sliver of mild fame ][/blush]About taking the driving test? Yeah, someone else picked it up and it got passed around a bit. My one and only bit of net lore.

The reprint is in the pipeline. Can send you one with pleasure - you qualify for the Teeming Millions discount!

**
Strangely enough, this topic is actually discussed in my book (gee, you must be psychic Coosa!). If someone knows about cold reading, then cold reading cannot be used on them. Otherwise, it can. I actually explain the blocking techniques to use. I sometimes used to go for readings with ‘real’ psychics just to keep my hand in, so to speak. Sooner or later, they all just had to use some face-saving line or other and give up.

As I said before, if I can be of any further help, let me know.

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coosa said, in the OP:

Well, yeah, I could have – if you had told me about this post. :slight_smile:

Anyway, it seems that others have posted much of the same material that I would have anyway.

There is a very good source for looking up these sorts of things – a search engine for skeptical sites: Skeptic Planet. I ran a search on “Sylvia Browne” there and came up with 18 hits, some of which have already been mentioned here.

Incidentally, Browne predicted that “Democrats will win the election with Bill Bradley, with close competition from the Reform Party.”

And she obviously missed the real news of the election – the whole Florida thing.

[note: I fixed a link. -manhattan]
[Thanks, but you missed another one that I’d screwed up. – David]

Browne has been mentioned in at least the past three years’ press releases from CSICOP on the previous year in psychic predictions:

1998
1999
2000

On a side note about the million-dollar prize, from James Randi’s FAQ:

*We can only test persons who either apply to become claimants for the million-dollar prize, or who will actually submit themselves to undergoing proper test procedures. The “stars” never do this, and in fact they do anything they can to avoid us and our challenge; they would rather just run on about past glories, point to anecdotal evidence, or grandly ignore our genuine offer to test them. The people who do apply are probably honestly convinced of their abilities, and have no fear of discovery. Where are James Van Praagh, Sylvia Browne, George Anderson, John Edward, and the rest of the current “big names”? And why hasn’t Uri Geller, the professional spoon-bender (remember him from the 70s?) snapped up this easy cash? One can only wonder. *

As far as the claim that she isn’t interested in the money, I got this from a mass media bunk portion of the Skeptic’s Dictionary:

March 31, 2000. The Madonna of psychics, Sylvia Browne, was featured in today’s Sacramento Bee. The justification for the feature by David Barton is that Browne is in town for a show on Sunday at the Sacramento Convention Center. Tickets for the 21/2 hour show are $49 and 1,500 advance tickets have been sold. Barton also advertises Browne’s latest book The Other Side and Back (Dutton, $23.95). Barton notes that Browne charges $400 for a personal “reading” and that she does these by phone at the rate of about 20 per day. There truly is a sucker born every minute.

Hey, here’s one I didn’t know about – a short article for the Brill’s Content website, Prophet Motive. I had heard that somebody from their magazine was working on an article. I hope this is just a tidbit of things to come (hell, I still have their most recent issue in my unread pile, so it may already be in there!). I’ll have to add that to Skeptic News.
Auntie Pam: For more info on Cayce, just wait a few days and keep your eye on the Staff Reports.

[Edited by David B on 12-30-2000 at 08:17 PM]

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Will do, David.

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Last night on the old Art Bell radio show they had their annual guest, Sean David Morton, who claims to have had an 85% accuracy rate in his predictions for 2000. I’m tellin ya, I could use a good psychic who can predict what the damm stock market is going to do! I think I’ll plug him into Dogpile and see what I get. And, as one of my professors at UC Davis, James Tart used to say, even psychics have to earn a living. You wouldn’t criticize a painter or musician for charging for their works.

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Suzie, did you mean Charles Tart?

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" I’m tellin ya, I could use a
good psychic who can predict what the damm stock market is going to do!"

Aren’t all stock market predictors psychics? What else woudl you call someone who predicts what’ll happen to a stock in the future?

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I called Sylvia Browne. She predicted I will soon be $750 poorer. She was right!

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Douglips: Thanks. Yes, it’s Charles Tart.

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Sorry to take so long replying - I seem to be having some problems with my server.

ian: Ah, modesty! How refreshing! Why is it that intelligent people are often modest and blithering idiots aren’t? I can’t wait to read your book - afterwards I think I’ll go visit Madame Lisa who lives nearby to have my palm read ;).

David B.: Sheesh! It never occurred to me to e-mail you and ask for your participation - I guess I thought it was presumptuous. Thanks for weighing in, though - you’re right, the other posters did a great job with links and suggestions. I really appreciate the Brill article - I guess I’m not the only Sylvia watcher, as it was posted on a Skeptics list I just joined the day after you posted it here.

I just can’t understand how people can continue to believe in people who are wrong so often! Of course, I can’t believe the nerve of the ‘psychics’ who can make such inaccurate predictions, then continue to claim they are psychic. Must take a really big ego to deal with that.

I knew the ‘psychic hotlines’ seemed to be very popular, but honestly, I thought it was mostly people calling in ‘for kicks’, just to see what they would say. I didn’t realize so many people took it seriously.

Auntie Pam: You’re welcome. Like you, I’m happily anticipating David B.'s promised Edgar Cayce article. Should be great!

Crafter_Man: Went for the whole enchilada, did you? A genuine in-person reading by the wonderful Sylvia? (It’s an extra $50 to see her in person.) Or have her rates gone up again?

suziek said:

Honestly, I don’t have a problem with ‘psychics’ charging for their services - if people are willing to pay them for that sort of thing, that’s their business. Heck, people pay other people to stick foreign objects up their rectums, too, and I don’t think that’s any of my business either.

But I have a problem with ‘psychics’ taking money under false pretenses (claiming to be genuine), professing to not care about money (while gouging the heck out of ‘clients’), and using that as a basis for refusing to ‘prove’ themselves by taking the James Randi challenge.

Sylvia Browne claims that her motivation is to help people; even if she sincerely didn’t care about the money, how many people could she help with the $1 million prize Randi is offering? She could donate it to charity or to research to find a cure for some disease - I’m sure the money would be welcome. And, if she is a ‘genuine’ psychic, why not legitimize what she and others are doing by proving it?

Just look at some of the ‘good’ a genuine psychic could accomplish: pre-diagnose illnesses so that treatment could begin before, for example, your body is riddled with cancer; track down serial killers before they kill again; provide warning of natural disasters, allowing the evacuation of people who are in harm’s way; predict and prevent airplane crashes, train wrecks, etc.; prevent terrorist actions (where were all of the psychics before the Oklahoma City bombing?); prevent wars by predicting the actions of world leaders - heck, the list could go a lot further.

Has anyone else here ever read the first two books in Anne McCaffrey’s ‘telepath & teleport’ series? I think the titles are ‘To Ride Pegasus’ and ‘Pegasus in Flight’. They address exactly this issue - if psychic powers were real, what could be accomplished that would benefit mankind, and how would it be organized/implemented? I thought they were fascinating, and a pretty good statement against the existence of ‘psychic powers’ - if they were genuine, surely some type of organization like she imagines would be in the works.

BTW, in case anyone is interested and has the surplus cash, supposedly you can e-mail Sylvia Browne up to 3 questions (at $50 per question) and one of her employees will contact you in 3 or 4 weeks with Sylvia’s very brief, one-sentence, no-elaboration or explanation answers.

If you want elaboration, you have to cough up the $700 for a phone reading. Or you can settle for her also-psychic son - he only charges $350.

Oh, and I acquired a new sig while wandering around the skeptic sites.

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coosa said:

Nah. I could always ignore ya. :wink: But, seriously, at least that way I know about the thread – and if you specifically were seeking my input…

What skeptics list is that? I suspect it wasn’t a coincidence.

You’d be amazed. They always have excuses (something that will come up in the upcoming Cayce Staff Report).

Naw. It just takes a really small conscience and a lot of big dollar signs.

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David B.: The list I read it on is the Skeptic Discussion Group - skeptic@listproc.hcf.jhu.edu, list owner is Taner Edis. I think I joined through the CSICOP site, but the list description says it is not affiliated with any of the skeptic organizations. snopes is on this list, and magician Dave Palmer.

BTW, I’ve found some really interesting stuff while following links:

Want to test your ESP? You can do so on-line at this site sponsored by a university (University of Liverpool, I think?) psychology department: http://www.mdani.demon.co.uk/para/esp1.htm

If you find that your paranormal abilities are lacking, you can improve them by ordering the Basic Level ESP Correspondence Course for $45 plus S&H. Once you develop your skills, you can Become a Psychic Detective for only $24.95 plus S&H. Just go here: http://www.uspsisquad.com

On the lighter side, I found Psychic Breeders
Dave’s Psychic Network
Hillhouse Psychic Detective Agency

After plowing through tons of ‘genuine psychic’ sites, the last three were certainly a welcome distraction!

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coosa said:

I used to be on that list, but when I went away for a vacation I put it on hold and never turned it back on. Too many messages! (And too many off-topic messages, in particular!)

The reason I asked is that after I found the Brill’s Content article, I posted it on Skeptic News. So I suspect somebody on the list saw it there and posted about it to the list.

[Edited by David B on 01-04-2001 at 08:49 PM]