Take you opinion, your skepticism, and your tragic excuse for reason and shove em.

In athread in GD about a shooting in Oklahoma I posted an abbreviated version of a story a friend told me about a shooting his older brother was involved in. The story is purposely abbreviated and lacking in details because it’s only purpose was only to make a relevant point in the thread.
Several posters voiced their skepticism about the story being true. Fine by me. I don’t expect people to instantly accept everything they read on a message board. What began to annoy me and eventually piss me off was people being so eager to piss all over the story and think they were being intelligent and reasonable by claiming a story about a violent gun crime wasn’t logical.

For fuck sake people, how logical do you expect violent crime and extraordinary circumstances to be? I understand healthy skepticism but if a story lacks details be smart enough to recognize that you lack enough detail to make a realistic judgment. In an abbreviated story there will probably be a lot of unanswered questions that cause a response of doubt or “I don’t get it” Great, but understand that doubt and “I don’t get it” aren’t the same as “Oh that’s bullshit” and just because you don’t understand it doesn’t automatically mean it’s bullshit. It might mean you don’t have enough information.

Finally there’s the automatic complete dismissal of the story for no apparent reasonHere and Here

You’re cordially invited to kiss my hairy ass. I really don’t care what you believe but the arrogance and ignorance of assuming you can make an accurate judgment about that story based on such sparse information shows what an opinionated asshole you are.
Based on one paragraph you’ve decided it doesn’t make sense to you so it must certainly be bullshit. Rather than express doubt and ask for clarification you accuse me and/or my friend of lying. You ignorant fucks. Shove your opinion and the piss poor excuse for reason it rode in on.
Thus endeth my rant.

Well, many people find the story …unlikely (myself included) because it honestly reads like some Snopes glurge. It’s not that it has an unexpected, unlikely twist to it - it’s pretty much all unlikely. Except the working at Ho Jo part, I guess :slight_smile:

So, yeah, until your get a cite more credible than “a Facebook friend told me his brother…”, anyone with a critical mind will remain highly skeptical. Such a story would at least make the local news, don’t you think ? Even in L.A., its combined elements would make it a big headline. A headline’d be cool. One poster in the original thread asked you for some simple details, like the city the brother was in, and the approximate date of the incident. Can’t you ask your friend for the fairly basic details ?

Besides, I’d say “that’s bullshit !” is a pretty valid expression of doubt. It’s strong doubt, sure. You can seize the opportunity to prove your story and make them eat their words, the naysaying bullies.

But no, we certainly don’t have to assume that because it’s physically possible, it must be true of have happened somewhere, sometime. There are probably tons of “perp doesn’t get shot, does something tragic, civilian regrets not shooting” news stories out there you could have looked for and used to make the same point. If you can’t be bothered to look for them, don’t expect us to bother believing your citeless story on good faith.

Your story is dismissed as fiction because that’s what we call stories that are made up.

I mean, you’d think that something this violent, this involved, with this many crimes committed would have made the news, wouldn’t you?

Provide a cite or shut the fuck up.

I really don’t get the Pit. I mean, I get having a place to voice your frustration at someone with no holds barred. I don’t get the need to respond to the person who is frustrated. Especially when you’ve already said everything in another thread.

You may be in the pit, but you are responding to the argument. Respond in that thread, where the rules of debate are mostly honored. Don’t come in here and say something to intentionally anger the original poster. Heck, if you can’t discuss things civilly, then you probably don’t have an argument, anyways.

What a total failure of a parallel to the Oklahoma incident. Taking the story at face value, the wounded robber still had the wherewithal to return upstairs and rape two women. How is that in any way comparable to someone shot in the head and lying unconscious and unarmed on the floor?

You, asshole, have no fucking idea what you’re talking about and are just spewing shit. Made the news? Did I mention a time frame or claim it was recent? Violent crimes happen in every major city in the US almost daily. Do you read about every one of them? Of course you don’t dickwad, so your lame point is obviously ridiculous.

Well gee, I didn’t hear about or or read about so it must be made up. Of course I have no fucking idea where or when it happened but that doesn’t matter, I must be right.

You shut up you ignorant clueless fuck. Stop embarrassing yourself by demonstrating your lack of reasoning ability.

A simple “I doubt this is true” is fine and understandable but going further to, " I’m sure this is bullshit" when you have no fucking way of possessing such knowledge is just a stellar display if being a dipshit.

I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else so a big “blow me” is all the cite you deserve. I related a story I have good reason to believe on a discussion board and I don’t care who doubts it. I understand that. For like you who go the extra mile to piss all over it, this thread is sufficient.

My inclination is not to believe the story.

You could really clear everything up here with a cite, and when you do there are a lot of people (myself included) who will feel like assholes.

From where I stand, the story is probably not true. It may actually be true, but from only the information available to me, the chances are that it isn’t. Sorry. If further information comes in to be considered, I will update my appraisal accordingly.

[QUOTE]

Thanks for a decent response.

It’s the critical mind part that really surprises me. Why is it that people would expect a violent gun related crime to follow their particular idea of logic? If you’re the kind of person who would never entertain committing such a crime then why would you think you can rationally predict what would or should happen in such an extreme situation? Don’t we consistently hear of things, such as the story being discussed in the other thread, that are outrageous and hard to believe? Doesn’t that at least demonstrate that outrageous things can and do happen and in the area of gun related violent crime , perhaps more often than shopping or dining out?

I’m not expecting people to embrace it as true just because I posted it. I was just surprised by the knee jerk response of “bullshit” IMO what’s reasonable is to realize a post on a message board may not be true, but to also acknowledge that outrageous crimes do happen and maybe it is true. “I don’t have enough information or details to make a reasonable judgment call” makes sense to me. “I don’t have enough information or details so it must be bullshit” doesn’t strike me as logical , and it’s coming from people claiming to be using logic.

It was years ago so headlines are unlikely. Upon that posters request I did ask my friend for more details but he shared his story with me and knows I trust him. He doesn’t give a shit what strangers on a discussion board think so he declined to justify his story to those skeptics. He told me the story in relation to a discussion over the very same subject of the other thread. The point it made stands.

Maybe I could if I was willing to give the assholes my and my friends time doing research on something that happened years ago. I have other things to do and I don’t think they deserve my efforts. Doubt is fine and understandable. “That’s bullshit” is just being a naysaying dick and that’s it’s own reward.

Aren’t you contradicting yourself a bit? It’s the fact that there *are *probably tons of real outrageous stories out there that makes the excessive criticism surprise me. I didn’t tell it to prove it’s true. I told it to make a point in the thread. Doubt all you want. I get it. Just don’t be a dick about it, or pass it of as logic and critical thinking when it isn’t. {not pointed at you specifically, I’m just saying}

Can you cite that the robber in the drugstore was unconscious on the floor? The man actually there said he was conscious and trying to get up. That’s exactly where the story I told becomes relevant.

I think the total failure is your point being based in known facts rather than assumptions.

A fair and reasonable statement which I have no objection to.

I doubt I could provide one without a time investment I’m not willing to make. Maybe not even then since it was some years ago. I’m really not inclined to plead with my friend to help me prove something to skeptic strangers on a discussion board.

My point here is that given how many outrageous things we hear about on a regular basis that are indeed true, why the needless knee jerk reaction to piss on this story.

Why isn’t “maybe it’s true , maybe it isn’t, I don’t have enough details to know” a more reasonable reaction?

Which man? The one charged with murder? Imagine that.

Regardless, people were appropriately sceptical of your conveniently illustrative anecdote. Don’t get pissy because people don’t take your brother-of-a-Facebook-friend story as gospel truth, especially when it was offered to you in response to the Oklahoma shooting.

That’s fine. The point isn’t whether the story is true or not although I believe the meat of it is. As I explained in the other thread, I’ve known this friend for years and know he’s not prone to lie or gross exaggeration. Posters who’ve known me around the boards for several years probably know I’m not prone to gross exaggeration or casual lying either. I don’t think there’s a lot more reason to doubt it than believe it. In a world of plenty of outrageous stories why is this one so impossible to entertain? The story was only shared to make a relevant point in the other thread and the point is made whether the story is 100% true or 60% true. I’m not disturbed by healthy skepticism. It was the degree that annoyed me enough to vent here.

So you can’t back up what you just posted? Imagine that!

In case you missed it. I’ve already said skepticism is understandable and I don’t expect people to embrace my story as gospel. It was in the OP. Imagine that!

Sometimes you want to express something beyond the rules of GD. I rarely post here so it’s almost a special occasion. Like a party, with swearing.

[quote=“cosmosdan, post:9, topic:499187”]

Umm, you can Google events quite some times ago. In fact, if you had just the name of the city where it occurred, then you could easily Google it “city name, Howard Johnson’s, murder, rape” and then add “birthday”, “skylight”, etc. You have plenty of details, if he can’t give you the name of the city, then it’s bullshit.

Well if the story was only supposed to illustrate the point that “a non-dead criminal can still cause harm”, you don’t need it to be probable tripe, and you don’t need the scenario to be a “true story that happened to a friend of a friend”. There must be plenty, and I mean plenty of news stories, with cites and all, available out there, on any pro-gun site.

My point is : you don’t need to hold on to the Snopes version, nor to adamantly profess its truth… when you’re not sure yourself, are you ?

So IMO you’re at least partially responsible for the shit you get.
Totally if you consciously chose that story precisely for the glurge factor in the hope of swaying us more easily to your argument with MOAR GRUESOME ! (although I personally believe that you really only latched to it because it’s the first one that was offered to you upon discussing the debate with your Facebook circle of friends and you didn’t think you’d get asked for “cite or it didn’t happen”. On the Straight Dope. In GD. You happen to be on the market for a bridge ? :D)

Nope. That’s something a N00B might try, but Cosmos has been around and paid his GD dues. Read minds much?

Hear! Hear! And at least a couple of Dopers who have met you personally have found you to be quite trustworthy.

Wuh ? What mind reading ? I’m acknowledging his version of why he posted the story in the first place. The last bit wasn’t meant to be taken as a “NOT!”, rather as friendly ribbing because, considering his join date, he should know by now that cites are always and will always be asked for, esp. in GD.

Clearer ?

I have some details of a bizarre murder which took place 35 to 40 years ago in a town of about 50,000 people. That town has a population of about 100,000 now, I think. If I shared the information now with you in PM, do you think you could locate a reference to it through Google? I’ve never been able to.