Take your family values and shove them!

The BBQ Pit
1

I’m getting sick and tired of polititians and religious freaks pushing pieces of legislation for the purpose of “protecting family values”, mainly because when someone wants the government to “protect family values”, they are usually trying to persuade the government to force everyone to live by their idea of “family values”, which often means somehow restricting abortion or shutting down some adult entertainment-related business. In any case, where do these pricks get off thinking that the government has any business enforcing their idea of family values? If I choose to deviate from said concepts, it’s none of their damn business.

Bottom line: Keep your so-called family values to yourself!

2

Yeah…in my family, value consists of who can get drunkest first and start punching his brothers. But, wot the hell, we’re Irish. Wadda we know about families?

Anybody wanna buy the .44 Smith I took off my brother just before the cops showed up?

JB
Lex Non Favet Delicatorum Votis

3

Family values. Now there’s something we can all unite against.

Like it or not, it’s a free country last time I checked. I don’t agree with most of what these people say, but it is their right to say it. Don’t like it? Just make sure you don’t vote for them. And if you don’t vote, don’t come bitching to me.

If you don’t want to hear opposing viewpoints, move to China. I hear they only allow one point of view. Hopefully it will agree with yours. If not, well, maybe you can try to reform the prison system from within. Lotsa luck.

I realize I sound like Archie Bunker here, but the right to free speech is one of our most valuable ones.

still trying to think of something witty to say here.

4

Oh, Awwwwchie. :wink:

[derision]
Fuck family values. We don’t need parents in this country to raise their kids with a sense of responsibility. We don’t need families to guide children and provide them with stability and a sense of ethics. We sure don’t need to have someone in the home with kids to show them they are loved and respected and (ghod forbid) limited–that they don’t have a right to selfishness.

No, let’s continue to have our children receive all their knowledge of sex from The Red Shoe Diaries, politeness from the Simpsons and conflict resolution from Armageddon. The entertainment industry provides a balanced view of real life, right?

And most of all, let’s make sure the lil’ darlin’s are coddled and told they’re special, that nothing is ever their fault, it was their stress or their depression or their attention fucking defecit disorder. Let’s make sure they know that self esteem is much better than actually earning good grades, that a positive self image is more important that working hard for something.

Naah, let’s just say fuck family values, instead of doing something to take the catchphrase back from the politicians and turn it into something useful. Let’s just piss on the entire message instead of actually trying to see through the rhetoric to the real live problems in our country.

Christ in a volvo, there are already kids blowing each other away left, right and center, how much fucking worse could it get? As long as we continue to say fuck family values, what could possibly go wrong?

(cue lightning)

[/derision]

-andros-

5

Perhaps the OP could have been phrased better.

My point was that the government should leave family values to the individual families. Live by whatever values you jolly well please, but don’t force them on others. It’s not family values, but the usage of family values to justify legislating morality, that I’m against.

I hope that clears things up.

If you don’t want to hear opposing viewpoints, move to China. I hear they only allow one point of view. Hopefully it will agree with yours. If not, well, maybe you can try to reform the prison system from within. Lotsa luck.

I realize I sound like Archie Bunker here, but the right to free speech is one of our most valuable ones.

I know the holier-than-thou pricks have a right to whine for the government to “protect vamily values”, I just don’t think the government has any business giving them what they want.

6

Damn andros!!! That post blew me away!!! I know we disagree in some matters and I won’t speak directly to you in the earth is flat thread without an apology, but I HAD to comment on your last post here!!!

Go man go!!!

Incredible!

Wow!!!

Stunned!!!

THIS IS NOT SARCASM!

Amazing!!!

Whew!!!

Phaedrus

For what a man had rather were true he more readily believes.

7

Your point was clear, Robodude. However, you may have to be even clearer in the future lest you build another soap box for andros.

8

That’s funny. Okay I won’t vote for corrupt politician A. I’ll vote for corrupt politician B instead! Yup, that should make a difference!

Having said that, the whole “family values” thing is a farce. Most of us are too young to remember “good Christian men” like Strom Thurmond voting against civil rights bills in the 60’s. They’ll say whatever it takes to get the votes, and then do the exact opposite if that’s what the huge corporations (or their own racism, sexism, homophobia, etc) want them to do.

I think it’s about time to move to Canada.

9

Robodude, I’ll let you know where I stand, first. I’m a bleeding-heart federalist. While I agree with many republican and libertarian viewpoints, I like the government.

Why?

I like having really nice roads to drive on. I like support of the Arts. I like knowing that my country won’t be invaded. I like walking down the street without fear.

And I like government intervention in things like sealtbelts, helmets, underage drinking and tobacco use, and DUI.

“But why?” the Libertarians whine. “They’re only hurting themselves!”

Bullshit.

Not every dumbfuck Harley rider who bails at 60 without a helmet dies. No, some of them survive. Paraplegic, quadraplegic, full-bore veggie . . . dammit, that’s no longer his problem. It’s now mine. And yours, and Zeb’s and JBenz’s and Puffington’s. Either he has insurance, in which case my rates go up fractionally to pay for his treatment, or he doesn’t, in which case the hospital has to treat him any way (fucking Hippocrates) and my hospital rates go up.

Now granted, the term “family values” is bullshit sound-bite fodder. It’s entirely meaningless as it’s used, except for some small amount of political capital.

But I defy you to claim that parenting in this country has not gone absolutely to shit.

“But Andros, that’s not myyyy problem.”

Wrong. It is your problem. Because it’ll be your kids getting shot in school by a morally devoid Kip Kinkel, it’ll be you getting mugged for Pokemon money (true story), it’ll be you footing the bill for darling Dakotah to have the bullet removed from her head, it’ll be you desperate to hire employees with something more than a fifth grade reading level, it will be you crying about your taxes when we need new prisons and jails to keep the little beauties off the streets, it’ll be your wife and kid killed by the 18 year old DUI who then walks scott free because “it wasn’t his fault” (also true).

It’ll be you paying through the nose. And paying and paying.

Therefore, it is in my best interests to support good parenting in this country and around the world. And the only way I can encourage parental and individual responsibility on a large scale is through the government.

I have no trouble letting stupid people kill themselves off. As Niven claimes, it’s “evolution in action.” But despite some libertarian’s wishes, none of us lives in a vaccuum. Everybody in my country affects me, however indirectly. As much as it might pain me, I have a selfish obligation to protect the stupid from themselves, because it’s also protecting myself from the consequences of their stupid acts.

-andros-

10

Far-Left Social Theory 231

today’s lecture:
“Why the Government has a responsibility to regulate behavior.”
Now Pooch, that was a soapbox.

-a-

11

<font size=4> Andros, Phaedrus–Don’t talk silly nonsense. We all know you don’t ever use soap; you guys aren’t even sure what it is; so where would you get a soap box?</font>

Save The Endangered Jackalope! Send Cash Now! If You Do This, I Will Use The Cash To Save Any Jackalope That I Happen To Find! Send Cash Now! Before It’s Too Late! My Bills, I Mean The Jackalope’s Bills Are Due The 15th Of The Month!
This has been a message from the Illuminated Committee To Save The Jackalope. Fnord.

12

You want to talk family VALUES. Oh my, don’t get me started! Here’s what gripes me:

*Parents who run around all day and night driving junior to soccer practice,etc., yet never sit down at a table together and have a non-rushed dinner conversation. Or parents who skip family traditions (e.g. Thanksgiving with the family) in lieu of a soccer game in Timbuktu. Family should come first.

*Parents who fight, beg and steal the entire month of December in search of ____ (insert trend de jour – Beanie babies, Cabbage Patch dolls, Pokemon cards) because Junior would DIE if he didn’t get them under the tree. News flash: Junior won’t die. And if more parents would refrain from giving in to these ridiculous trends, we’d all have an easier time of it.

*Parents who let some stranger spend more time with their own children than they do in the quest for more shit. I’m not talking the single parents struggling to get food on their table. I’m talking the parents who’d rather send their kids off to KidsRUs daycare for 10 hours a day rather than “make do” in a modest home and a 5 year old car. Do we really need a 3 car garage, people?

*Parents who allow their kids to speak disrespectfully to others, especially adults. It may be cute on Roseanne, but it isn’t cute in real life to have a wise-ass for a child.

*Parents who encourage their kids’ materialism by buying only designer clothes, be it the Gap, Abercrombie & Fitch, or Tommy Hilfiger. Children are little Ids and need to learn how to deal with the word “No.” They need to learn that just because they WANT something, they’ll not get it. They need to learn that mom and dad can’t afford everything, and it will be okay.

Okay, okay, I’m done for now…

13

[applause]
Yeah Lisa!
[/applause]

14

And I like government intervention in things like sealtbelts, helmets, underage drinking and tobacco use, and DUI.

So do I. But that’s not what I was referring to.

But I defy you to claim that parenting in this country has not gone absolutely to shit.

Part of the reason parenting has “gone to shit” is because people have been whining for the government to do their parenting for them. They expect the media to be tidied up so they don’t have to pay the slightest bit of attention to what their kids watch, listen to, play, or read. It’s not enough that kids grow up in a safe environment. Noooo, Big Brother has to wipe out everything that could be a bad influence.

Therefore, it is in my best interests to support good parenting in this country and around the world. And the only way I can encourage parental and individual responsibility on a large scale is through the government.

The problem with that is that the government has been largely responsible for destroying individual and parental responsibility. It set up courts where people can sue others for ridiculous reasons, forced TV manufacturers to put V-chips in TV sets so parents wouldn’t have to go to the trouble of paying attention to what their kids watch, and in general helped America become a nation of spoiled people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions, expect the media to teach children proper values because they’re too damn lazy, and in general expect the government to solve each and every one of their problems.

15

Hooo-kay. Gonna regret this…

I deeply resent “family values” platforms because they’re cheap, facile and non-repsonsive. Rotten parents abound, of all socio-economic classes and all political persuasions. (BTW…YAY, LISA!)

“Family values” as a platform is (IMO) obscene because it trivializes and spins the basic societal need for adults to guide, nurture,train and shelter children. I’ve thrown so many hissy fits over this in past discussions it’s embarrassing. But what the hey…

Children are not theories.

Children are human beings, and our future. They are not property, statistics or campaign fodder, religious, political or otherwise. They will owe, precisely no more and no less, than the strength, support and guidance we as adults give them. If, as individuals, they can give back more, that’s grace, not deserved.

I deeply, honestly hate using kids for cheap jargon, political chits and disposable spin factors. Okay, that’s “against sin”, but how many laws and initiatives and big-deal brouhahas have one damned thing to do with kids rather than posturing? Not damned many.

Kids aren’t property. Rotten parents don’t have “rights” to kids. Kids have a right to eat. Kids have a right to a thorough, fair and complete education. Kids have a right to a childhood free of fear and want.

The trouble is, “family values” has become a deeply cynical, shallow and meaningless catch word that serves adult agendas, and leaves children–real, right-now kids–out in the cold.

As usual.

Children are not political theories!

Veb

16

I was raised in a family with all of the values and none of the religion one supposedly needs to have values.

Mom and dad. Both married until she died. Kids raised with a strict sense of morality.

And sure, I have to agree I was far better off than those raised in less than ideal circumstances. I think everyone would agree with that.

What I do NOT agree with is politicians using banal code-words instead of tackling real issues, or taking a real issue and losing all focus on it by applying an illogical slant to it, like they are wont to do when they demand religion = values.

It all goes back to typical politician crap. The GOP is based upon “family values,” so that would therefore mean Democrats are for drugs and whore-fucking in the streets with gays, right?

I have a headache…

Yer pal,
Satan

17

<< [derision]
Fuck family values. We don’t need parents in this country to raise their kids with a sense of responsibility. We don’t need families to guide children and provide them with stability and a sense of ethics. We sure don’t need to have someone in the home with kids to show them they are loved and respected and (ghod forbid) limited–that they don’t have a right to selfishness.

No, let’s continue to have our children receive all their knowledge of sex from The Red Shoe Diaries, politeness from the Simpsons and conflict resolution from Armageddon. The entertainment industry provides a balanced view of real life, right?

And most of all, let’s make sure the lil’ darlin’s are coddled and told they’re special, that nothing is ever their fault, it was their stress or their depression or their attention fucking defecit disorder. Let’s make sure they know that self esteem is much better than actually earning good grades, that a positive self image is more important that working hard for something.

Naah, let’s just say fuck family values, instead of doing something to take the catchphrase back from the politicians and turn it into something useful. Let’s just piss on the entire message instead of actually trying to see through the rhetoric to the real live problems in our country.

Christ in a volvo, there are already kids blowing each other away left, right and center, how much fucking worse could it get? As long as we continue to say fuck family values, what could possibly go wrong?

(cue lightning)

[/derision] >> Andros

All well and good, as far as that goes – we’re all (except for the handful of Crowley-ites, I suppose) in favor of good character and values. How does that translate into a political platform in any legitimate sense, though? Especially when the term “family values” as actually used so often means little more than deriding single-parents and opposing any rights or respect for homosexuals (not saying that’s your platform, mind you)?

18

Phaedrus, fuck off. I’m the same fucking person in this thread as I am in any other. If you won’t come down off of Mount Phaedrus, then don’t talk to me here either, you self-centered piece of shit.

-andros-

19

FTR, I enjoy playing devil’s advocate. Take anything I say with several grains of salt.

You’re right, it absolutely is not my platform. Unfortunately, some knee-jerk fuckheads (not mentioning any names, Phaedrus) interpreted my post as being pro-Republican or pro-God or pro-Libertarian, or whatever.

I’m not denying that “family values” is a bullshit phrase used to justify the attempted Baptistizing of the country. Way wrong. Evil.

But there may have been some good intent before the expression was perverted. A law to keep women barefoot and pregnant is obscene. But a law to keep children fed and in stable homes? Worth fighting for.

I was mostly responding to Robo’s line in his OP,

The gummint has the right to enforce anything it wants, as long as we let it. It’s a trite phrase, but true: we are the government. Enough people wanted seatbelt laws, we got seatbelt laws.
Enough people in South Carolina, Utah, Alabama, wanted liquor-free counties, they got 'em. Enough people wanted former sex offenders registered in a database, we got it.

The goventment has the power to legislate “family values” because we give it to them.

Baaaaaaa.

-andros-

20

Hey, I thought the topic was “Toke Your Family Values and Shave Them.”

But as long as I’m here…

Yes, we need “family values.” Yes, “family values” is a trite sound-bite name for the concept, and this fact really takes away from the true idea. The concept is this: the moral upbringing of children should be left to the parents. However, in today’s society it is becoming increasingly difficult to bring kids up the way that many parents would like, due to the constant contradiction of the media. This is where the government comes in. Now, it’s pretty tricky to regulate such things without stepping on anyone’s First Amendment toes. But we, as a species, are pretty goddamn smart, and as a nation, compromise is kind of our specialty. Which leads us to creative solutions like “The V-Chip” and Parental Advisory stickers. If you’re going to get all up in arms about the government enforcing these kind of plans to try and accomodate everyone, then it’s time to reevaluate your political priorities.
Yes, the “family values” platform isn’t that much of a platform at all, just a phrase intended to get votes from soccer moms (or detract them from your opponent). However, RoboDude, nobody is trying to force their values down your throat, no matter how much they might like to, because that would alienate you. Everything in politics is a compromise, and I think that some of the recent actions relating to “family values” are excellent modern-day examples.

The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.