Taking advantage of the poor, elderly, or ill-informed

*Warning: Long-winded author.
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Folks tell me, for reasons unknown to me, that I should write a book.

I have on occasion given careful thought to the subject of such a book. I am just a dude, ordinary as hell, whose only major talent seems to be being able to explain things to people. I wanted to be a teacher but life happened and money didn’t, so I’m still a pizza guy, of sorts.

I have also given thought to the vast, vast amounts of writing that already exists. Chances are, anything I write, has been done better by someone else with more experience and funnier quips.

And yet, I feel there is a book that I could potentially write, which would be useful to someone. Maybe even a lot of someones. If not specifically that useful, at the very least, somewhat informative and hopefully funny and interesting to read.

The funny and interesting to read, I’ll try to handle this much myself. And I will fail, or so my critics tell me, most of them living inside my brain.

However, the topic I want to write about the most, is not actually politics, religion, or philosophy, though I adore writing about all of these. What I really want to write about is a book dedicated to helping the poor, elderly, disadvantaged, ill-informed, or just plain naive recognize the various ways that people are trying to take advantage of them. But the fact is, some folks get along just fine and are plenty bright, and they still get duped because they let their guard down, or just aren’t paying close attention.

The book is conceived to be a book for everyone, something you can send your grandmother to make sure she isn’t deceived by scam artists out to get what’s left of her hard earned money- something you can give to your kid when he turns 18 so he doesn’t fall for the “employment” scams that turn out to be pyramid schemes or simply sales pitches for products he has to buy in order to become (self) employed in a business that ultimately earns nothing. Like chimney sweep in Florida. Buy the kit, and we’ll give you a list of clients. You can earn 100,000 dollars a year!

The book should be about the raw deals being offered to the poorest class- where every transaction they make is weighted heavily against them.

Banks that target them for heavy fees and penalties, offering very little in the way of reasons to even bank with them, and won’t offer them anything in the way of loans. Payday advance places. Convenience stores offering everything from overpriced cigarettes to overpriced beer to overpriced sugary drinks to lotto tickets. Employers offering nothing in the way of guaranteed full-time hours, no benefits whatsoever, offering no flexibility in their scheduling, and rewarding their hardest-working, best employees with nothing but a dead-end. Auto repair places who engage in shady practices to get the most money from every potential sucker, versus what an honest place would offer you for the same type of work, and what protections you as a consumer should expect.

The book is supposed to talk about the various ways online predators can get at you, with lessons about protecting your passwords, personal data, and how to avoid getting viruses, spam, malware.

Rather than a whole library of books each dedicated to one topic, the book should be a compendium of all the various sucker deals and ponzi schemes and bullshit sales tactics that folks need to watch out for, and how to protect themselves, and what they should expect, nay, demand… instead.

Such a project I feel would be perfectly worthwhile, if the end result is informative, well-written, and not boring as all hell.

That’s the general outline. Since this is the place that says that it is dedicated to fighting ignorance right there on the top of the page, I figured what better place to find like-minded people. So where do you come in?

No one person is an expert on everything. The worst idea a person can have is that he’s such an expert on everything that he should write a book, because usually that guy is dumb as toast and his book is going to be utter garbage that *thankfully *will never, ever find a publisher.

I readily admit to being an expert on nothing, and my hope for such a project is that the worst thing about the project is that I will never find a publisher. If that’s the only bad downside, then bravo. I can always make it free on the internets.


Are you asking me to help you write a book, Askthepizzaguy?


Well, yes and no. To be perfectly clear, the answer is nyos*.*

I might be asking you what sorts of topics you’d like see covered in such a book. Or whether you’d be interested in such a thing at all. Or if you know someone who could use a book like this. Or if, unlike myself, you are an actual expert on something that the book might cover. In which case, proper credentials and experience can easily land you credit as a contributor, to be paid some portion of the proceeds of the sale of the book that the author receives, as a way of thanking you. Which you needn’t worry about, since it will never be published in a million years.

You can also use this thread to heckle me and tell me that the book idea sucks and I should feel ashamed for thinking anyone would want such a thing. Or whatever else is legal in this forum. Feedback of almost any kind will be welcomed.

You may also boot me out of here if this was the wrong place to post this thing. GO!

When conveying your idea, illustrations are your friend. A picture can say in far less time and with far fewer words what would otherwise take many pages. In the absence of actual pictures, examples or analogies often do the trick. An example of the kind of thing I want to write about might be helpful here.


CONVENIENCE STORE LOGIC

There’s a convenience store located right next to where I work. Since I am there almost every day, I notice that some people go there almost daily as a customer. And something else I’ve noticed is that the folks who frequent this particular convenience store are all really bad at handling their money, and the people who own and operate this store know it very well.

They work in a high-crime area with clientele of people who live well below the poverty line. Why did they decide to set up shop here, where risk is high and actual money is scarce? The answer is because they know they know how to squeeze blood from a stoner. These people make out like bandits, the shop keepers anyway. The customers, on the other hand, could use a reminder that they could be spending their money more wisely, even on the items that are sucker deals to begin with.

I haven’t found much in the store that I would ever consider purchasing. The store mainly sells alcohol and soft drinks at an exorbitant price, but they also sell cigars and cigarettes, even single cigarettes, one at a time. They sell lottery tickets, energy drinks, sex pills, energy pills, and extremely overpriced cereal, and cans of soup and ramen noodles.

Any convenience store is usually an encyclopedia of bad deals. What the appeal of the convenience store is, is that it’s a convenience. Sort of like ordering pizza and a soda for delivery. As a pizza man, I know all about the appeal of convenience. Why else would you pay $3.00 for a 2 liter soda? It’s an extravagance, a luxury, intended for those days you feel like pampering yourself and you don’t want to roll off the couch and drive to the store. Certainly not an everyday thing if you live in poverty.

Which brings up the curiosity- an entire class of people living in poverty, who visit the rip-off store every single day. This is their supermarket, where they spend all their money. So this is no longer an extravagance or a luxury, it is the norm for them. Further, there is no appeal regarding convenience, because they return every day, so they aren’t saving any time, and the convenience store is directly across the street from a big box pharmacy/department store with drastically cheaper prices. So there is no actual convenience involved, other than not having to cross the street. And since this is a not very busy side street, there’s rarely any traffic to have to avoid when crossing over to the department store.

So what’s so important that it requires the extra convenience of not having to stand on the opposite sidewalk? It turns out, it’s cigars, alcohol, loosies, and big sugary drinks. Everything the convenience store sells, except for the bread which always just sits on the shelf. The only actually cheap, actual food in the entire store.

You can tell that the entire philosophy of this establishment is to sell at an exorbitant price items of little actual value which appeal greatly to people who have very poor judgment, and who cannot handle their money very well, and are willing to get bled completely dry as long as they can avoid crossing any street once.

Let’s take a look at the cigarettes. An item that is already a gloriously massive rip-off no matter where you purchase them, that provides no nutritional value and a whole massive load of health problems, with a truckload of extra taxes parked right on top of it, and is chemically addictive. Now, on the shelves of a convenience store, is further inflated in price, and when sold as single cigarettes (illegally, but sold all the same) is further inflated in price once more. Of course, otherwise why would the store take the risk of being fined? This is a gold mine.

A pack will cost you 6 dollars at a reputable store, which is 20 cigarettes. But this store, directly across the street from the more reputable store, will sell them to you individually for only 50 cents apiece, and that’s the whole price, no tax! What a bargain.

Except if you can do math. 20 cigarettes for six dollars is about 30 cents a cigarette. This store is willing to do you the favor of selling you that same cigarette for only almost double the price. And of course there’s no additional taxes, because this sale is illegal. But you’re already paying the taxes on it, at the 30 cent per cigarette price. So the taxes are still in there.

But all you needed was one or two cigarettes, right? Why spend 6 dollars when you can spend just one dollar per day?

I could almost buy that argument, even if it is such a stupid one, if all you came with in your pocket was a dollar and you needed your cigarette fix really badly. I might cut you some slack for being addicted to a drug, and that’s all you’re buying. But no, you came to the store with enough money to also buy three lotto tickets, a dollar cigar, and some whiskey, and made an impulse purchase of pork rinds, and a pack of GUM for a buck fifty.

Did you really need the gum that badly? So you just spent fifteen dollars getting absolutely nothing. None of that was actually food, and none of it will satisfy you in any way 24 hours from now.

That’s why you’re back the next day, with another five or ten dollars, buying another item that will last you a few hours. When you get hungry, you’re already there… and you might as well pay 3 times for a box of cereal what a box of cereal is actually worth. Or how about Doritos for twice the ordinary price. Smart purchases.

So you’re back the next day, spending on average, about 10 dollars, and after that, you still need actual food, or else you’ll starve. This amounts to a $300 dollar a month grocery bill that ends up giving you four boxes of cereal and occasionally, a quart of milk. That’s the stuff you ended up buying that lasted more than 24 hours.

For that money, you could buy a rather decent car, and drive it all the way across the street to the Walgreens that is precisely 100 feet away, and purchase some actual groceries.

But you’re already walking to the convenience store. Why not just walk to the Walgreens? An actual store with actual products that will last more than 24 actual hours from the time of purchase?

The answer is because you want to be in and out of that store in less than five minutes, and don’t feel like crossing the street. True, the convenience store does have that going for it.

That’s worth an entire car to you? All the food you could ever eat, every month? That’s how much the convenience is worth to you?

It sounds rather like a bad decision to me, and explained this way, I’m sure it seems that way to you. When you only make $1,000 per month, three hundred dollars of it being pissed away for a grand total of four boxes of cereal does seem rather like a rip-off.

Why do I go to the convenience store?

It is literally adjacent to my place of work, and I purchase precisely one item there. I buy a name brand iced tea that is way, way too sweet and contains way, way too much sugar. I purchase it for a dollar, and that includes the tax.

I then take it to work where I pour half of it into the bottle I drank yesterday, and I fill up the rest of both bottles with the same tap water they used to make the tea in the first place. Now I have two bottles of tea, that are no longer too sweet to drink, that won’t give me diabetes even if I drink both of them, for the price of 50 cents each. It’s approximately what it would cost per fluid ounce to buy that gallon of tea from Walgreen’s. And I don’t have to lug around a gallon jug.

It’s perhaps the only sane purchase I could make at this particular convenience store. I do own a vehicle, and can drive to Wal-Mart and buy an entire week’s worth of groceries for the money some other folks are spending on their daily junk purchase by the end of the week, with a hundred dollars per month left over to help pay for the car itself. 50 dollars a week in groceries is a pretty generous budget for one person, especially when your box of cereal doesn’t end up costing you $5.50

I don’t know about you, but that seems like a way better deal. Not only am I buying a lot more things, but I’m also driving in an air-conditioned car while I’m getting to the store.

So how do places like this stay in business?

Because they’re betting that you’ll use convenience store logic. I could stop by the convenience store real quick after work, that way I don’t have to go all the way to the grocery store. And they’re appealing to a whole group of people who have no car whatsoever, who are going to be walking to the store to get things for themselves, and won’t be looking to carry back a week’s worth of groceries.

So, for the price of what you would pay at an actual Applebee’s house sirloin steak, with fries and a side, and a refillable glass of soda, you can instead purchase beef jerky for 7.99, pork rinds or a bag of Chester’s Flamin’ Hot fries for 99 cents, canned vegetables for $1.20, and a bottle of Pepsi (Just $2.75, or you can get two for just five dollars! Get ripped off twice, and save 50 cents using convenience store logic!).

So let’s add it up. That’s $15.20 since we opted to “save money” by getting two sodas as an impulse purchase when we only needed one. What was Applebee’s charging for an entire meal, soda, and a steak? Oh yeah, it was $14.69.

So, we could save money at the convenience store getting a really, really inferior set of products loaded with preservatives, which we then bring home and “enjoy” (I’m using that term really loosely here. We are talking about convenience store pork rinds, after all) or we could have actually saved 50 cents eating an expensive-ass meal from Applebee’s.

Can’t afford the tip? Of course you can. You’re spending 3 bucks on lottery tickets daily. But if you want to save that 3 bucks and spend it on Lotto tickets, go get Applebee’s curbside to go service. Just get to the restaurant somehow, and pick it up. Now you’re eating an actual steak, with actual vegetables, and actual freshly cooked french fries, and drinking a big freaking huge to-go soda, and you’re doing it every single stinking day.

But you probably thought you couldn’t afford to eat a steak everyday.

Of course you can’t. You’re spending the equivalent at the convenience store instead, saving all that time and money, as long as you’re using convenience store logic. I bet you one of your friends has a car. Carpool to Applebee’s. Treat yourself to an actual steak, instead of convenience store beef jerky, for the same price.

If you wonder why you don’t have any money left over at the end of the month, it’s probably because you were eating an expensive steak every day that you couldn’t afford, and what’s worse, you didn’t actually get to eat it.

*Convenience store logic: How your own brain tricks you into staying poor.
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Feedback welcome.

*And now, the illustration portion for those of you who think this is TL;DR.
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**Convenience store: **Would you like to buy four boxes of breakfast cereal for the low, low price of what you and your roommate individually spend on rent each month?

Consumer: Hell no! I’m not stupid.

Convenience store logic: What if I throw in some cigarettes that require 30 trips to the store and only cost twice the price of regular cigarettes?

Consumer: SOLD! :smiley:

You probably ought to coin a catchphrase or term for the convenience stores you are describing. Since not ALL of them are like that, of course.

Maybe you could call them the Inconvenience Stores?

Sam Vimes’ Boots.

I used to work in a convenience store in the 80s. We had a small deli, and we sold hard liquor as well as beer, wine, and those malt beverages. We had our regulars, as we were in a strip mall with a few other stores, a bar, a laundromat, an arcade, and a couple of restaurants. A lot of the people who worked in the various other stores would hit our store right after their shift for their beer, cigs, and dinner. If you like various brands of cigarettes, I can see that buying a single pack at a time might be a little better than buying four or five different cartons, which will go stale on you. It’s like buying a quart of milk instead of a gallon, if you don’t drink much milk. But with some of the regulars, I just had their regular pack of smokes in my hand when they stepped up to the counter, and sometimes their favorite deli sandwich, too. It was too much trouble to go grocery shopping once a week and buy a carton of cigarettes and some lunch meat and bread. We had a group of people who used food stamps, and they’d bitch about our high prices while buying junk food on the stamps…I never could figure that one out. They’d buy a pack of gum and use a dollar stamp to pay for it so that we’d have to give out coins in change, and continue to do this until they had enough for their beer and cigarettes. Some people can’t see any goal that’s further away than about an hour or so.

Don’t even get me started on the people who would come in and play the slots every day. Our slots were tight, that is, they had a very low rate of return. Winning on our machines was even rarer than winning on a casino machine, yet a lot of people were in the routine of coming in after work, buying dinner, a six pack of beer, a pack or two of cigarettes, and getting a couple of dollars’ worth of quarters, and they’d play the slots as they went out. And the next day they’d be back, and wonder why they couldn’t save any money.

This is what I see as the problem:

Your book would tell poor people that they’re getting screwed. Poor people aren’t stupid - they’re aware they’re being screwed. And even if they are stupid and don’t know it, how is explaining to them that they’re being screwed going to make their life any better?

A book telling people they have problems is worthless unless you can offer some good solutions to those problems. And they better be solutions that are obtainable by the people with the problems.

Pizza Guy, I think you need to look at this article before you write your book.

You’ve got a long row to hoe if you’re trying to break a life-long (and sometimes generations-long) pattern of instant gratification. People know they aren’t making the wise choice, or even good choices, but they’re getting something very powerful out of it - instant provision of what they wanted. In a life where everything’s a challenge, and lots of things are totally impossible to achieve or acquire, that’s a really powerful motivator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

Poor people may or may not be stupid in some ways but many truly are stupid with money or simply about the way things work. He didn’t say it was only about poor people however and I get the impression isn’t wealthy himself. Plenty of people, many of them very smart otherwise, get scammed in lots of ways.

I actually think it is a great idea for a book as long as you write it in an a very accessible style. I think there is a need for it as well. There is plenty of money management information on Bloomberg radio, the Motley Fool, and Money magazine for example but most people who are bad with money don’t typically flock to those types of sources.

I do agree that the most valuable part of the book would be to present it in an easy to read Problem/Solution format. That is pretty simple to do for many such problems as long as you keep it general. You could cover everything from check cashing places to pawn shops and give some VERY basic math showing why they are a bad idea and what someone could do to avoid them. There are literally hundreds of things you could address and it doesn’t have to be only about the poor or elderly. Middle-class do some incredibly stupid stuff with everything from mortgages, credit cards, to retirement plans.

Thanks much for the feedback so far.

I think that in the book itself, breaking up blocks of words with illustrations and pie charts (and pretty pictures, I guess) would help. For many of these folks, they’re impatient (obviously) and digest information in more manageable, quick bites.

One thing I could do to illustrate the silliness of the lotto tickets, just as one example, is to point out how long it would take you to “win” 10,000 dollars by putting your 3 dollar a day lotto ticket habit into even the shittiest bank account with a 1% interest rate compounded monthly. Guaranteed to be a winner after X number of years. Then, show you how many years it would take to win 10,000 dollars from a scratch-off ticket if you bought three a day.

I don’t have the math in front of me but it’s an absurdly long time.

Since numbers lose their power with people who can’t visualize them, it would help to illustrate the point by putting a chart next to it.

Number of years before guaranteed “jackpot” of ten thousand dollars with a bank account: 6 years

Number of years before you’re statistically likely to have won ten thousand dollars from a scratch off, completely ignoring all the money you’ve lost in the meanwhile:

$3.00 scratch off, 10,000 dollar prize, one I found was called “Bingo night”. Odds were 1 in 1,800,000.

In approximately 4,931 years you have a near-certain chance of having won the big prize, having spent 3 dollars a day until then, costing you $5,400,000 dollars in the process, netting you a grand total of:

(Negative) $5.39 million dollars! WOOO HOOO I AM A WINNER.

The impact of those numbers would be better illustrated with a fancy ass graphic. Even a simple one would do.

People think that their luck is better with some of the other tickets, that cost less and pay less out, because hey, they are a winner almost every other day. They often win back five dollars after spending fifteen. So really, it’s like they’re making money, not losing it. :smack:

The reason why these schemes are so successful is because some folks have a very serious issue realizing the power of numbers. Any really bad trade is generally predicated on the idea that either the person on the short end of this stick has no choice but to accept a bad offer (such as in a must-sell situation) or one of the people involved in the trade has a poor ability to visualize their own money being flushed down the toilet. The odds are better that if you flush your cash down an actual toilet, that it will get clogged, back up, and begin spitting your own money back at you, and since it is clogged, it will eventually stop accepting any money whatsoever. So literally flushing your money down the toilet is a better deal for the other 1,799,999 people playing the 3.00 a day lottery. And the odds are, they spent nine years playing that lottery or more anyway, so they still ended up losing money, while feeling like a big winner.

The sick beauty of the lottery is that the other 1,799,999 people feel like a big winner whenever they get a 25 dollar winner ticket. They absolutely don’t care that they blew 300 dollars on lottery this month, they “won” $25. So even though they are the lottery’s big loser, they feel just as good as if they won.

It’s like a venus fly trap for people with poor visualization or math skills. I really feel pictures will help.

Maybe I’m just idealistic, but I have to believe that if certain people could have it finally sink in how badly they’re getting ripped off, that some small shred of self-respect or pride will kick in and they’ll stop being voluntary abuse victims.

I have to admit, that sounded really naive even as I wrote it. Is this whole project doomed to fail?

There’s a hopeful part of me that wants to try anyway.

I think if you were trying to actually help the disadvantaged that you would be giving it away for free online. Otherwise, why should I believe that your not just trying to pull one over me too?

I had one question that wasn’t addressed. What kind of convenience store is this? A major brand, or a mom and pop shop? If it’s the latter, people could be making the conscious decision to help the owner that lives in the neighborhood, rather than the giant corporations we see everywhere. That’s why I shop at the convenience store down the street.

What makes you think poor people are his target audience? They don’t have money to buy books.

Poor people can go to the library.

I think it would be an entertaining read, but I do have a couple of points to address. I’m a serial smoker/quitter. Tobacco free for over a year this time, go me!

I’ve never been able to go cold turkey, I’ve always had to taper off and I’ve never been able to do that without giving control of my cigarettes to someone. The easiest way to do this was to buy one cigarette at a time. That forced me to make the choice to go to the store and buy one. They cost 75 cents the last time, BTW, and I rarely bought anything else. Its possible that the people you see buying single cigarettes are doing what I did.

The other is that gambling is a much different problem than buying stuff at a rip-off joint. SG lived in a camp trailer and stole food from the break room but just had to buy his tickets. It was an addiction for him. I do agree that its a stupid way to waste money, but as a tobacco addict, I do understand addictions.

You really do explain very well, and are easy and entertaining to read. I probably wouldn’t buy your book if I saw it a store, I rarely buy books, but I would check it out at the library and tell people about it.

(I might buy it because you are a fellow doper and I want you to do well, but not for the subject matter.)

The thread title.

Good point on the library, Flatlined.

I’d also like to add that I used to work a job that I would call a scam. It was legal, but no doubt sketchy and misleading. It was one of those “invention” places.

Anyways, I and many of my colleagues, talked people into spending thousands of dollars in the hopes that they would make a fortune. I watched the company gross over 2 million dollars every month, and not a single client receive a single penny back. A good analogy to describe it would be like buying a $10,000 lottery ticket down at the local 7-11.

The most absurd part about it was the fact it was an OBVIOUS risk. The statistics showing how many people received a profit, and how big of one, were all forthcoming and clear on the website. They were not very encouraging. Also, there were websites dedicated to calling us out as scammers.

I don’t know how to explain it. It seemed like the people were mostly middle-aged, bored, and tired of working. Also, I can imagine there had to be some level of naivete or cognitive dissonance taking place. People sold their cars, re-mortgaged their house, put it on a credit card… you name it. In the end, more often than not, they got fucked.

I’m really ashamed of the part I took in that company, but I sure as hell learned a lot about people. There are techniques to persuade people against their better judgement.

This might be a good place to start. Cognitive Biases

I’m picturing your book with infographics!

So the entire concept behind FoxNews is based on an official cognitive bias? Nice.