Tattoo of the Tetragrammaton

[Green_Bean]

@Dewey_Finn

I’m not offended, but it seems a douchey thing to do. Why would you take something that’s important to someone’s religious or cultural beliefs and make it into a decoration?

It doesn’t bother me a bit when people use most Jewish symbology for decorative purposes. I’ve known several Christians and other miscellaneous non-Jews who wear a Star of David just because they like it. I’ve known non-Jews who have mezuzahs on their doorframes or incorporated chuppahs into their wedding ceremonies. Just because they like it. That’s cool with me. If this girl wanted to get herself tattooed with a chai or a seder plate, I wouldn’t care.

But this particular thing is different. The folks upthread have explained that.

@Erdosain

I too think it depends on where this tattoo is going. Forearm? Neck? Face?

Good lord! I hope she doesn’t get it on her forearm! That would be so offensive that it’s almost funny.

[Green_Bean]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

It’s not prohibited for the wearer.

The poll question is “Is this tattoo a bad idea.” Those of us who are saying yes to that aren’t saying it because she’s bound by Jewish law or custom. We’re saying it because we think it’s a bad idea *in spite of the fact *that she’s not bound by Jewish law or custom.

[Marley23]

@Anaamika

No one cares, really, when Chinese ideograms or Hindu symbols or Japanese kanji are appropriated.

Or if they do have a problem with it, the objection is that it’s a trite design, not that it is an offensive theft from someone else’s culture.

@Chronos

As for the argument that a tattoo is only for the wearer and that it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks, that only holds water if you get the tattoo on the inside of your eyelids.

They are usually only for the wearer regardless of location. That’s true even if someone else can see it.

Anywhere else, it’s going to be seen by someone else, and you know from the outset that it’s going to be seen by someone else, and when I see something, I have the absolute right to decide whether I like what I see.

Of course, how many other people see it depends very much on where the tattoo is. As to whether it matters what anyone else thinks… that’s too imprecise to mean anything. If you can see my tattoo (or you know I have one), you’re welcome to your opinion about it. Does your opinion matter? I guess it does to you, but you’re not the one with the tattoo.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Green bean

Good lord! I hope she doesn’t get it on her forearm! That would be so offensive that it’s almost funny.

That would be hilarious. The OP should talk her into putting some kind of random serial number there too. He could tell her it has some kind of mystical, kabbalistic meaning.

Actually what would be perfect is getting her to tattoo a numerological rendering of Leviticus 19:28.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Green_Bean

The poll question is “Is this tattoo a bad idea.” Those of us who are saying yes to that aren’t saying it because she’s bound by Jewish law or custom. We’re saying it because we think it’s a bad idea *in spite of the fact *that she’s not bound by Jewish law or custom.

I know. I’m asking why anyone else should care.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

It’s not prohibited for the wearer.

So? I was adressing why “Jewish symbols get treated special”.
But to address the larger question: civilized people all the time make personal choices to limit their behavior simply out of respect for others. Is it required? Generally not. It is worth considering when choosing your own behavior? In my experience, yes.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

My question is still why anybody else should care. How are they hurt by it?

[Ostrya]

@Chronos

It’s not just about appropriating another culture’s symbols. If it were a Star of David, I’d say it was edgy and something to think twice about, but ultimately not all that offensive (though very weird). If it were some Old Testament passage that she thought was particularly poetic or philosophically deep, written in the original Hebrew, I’d see no problem at all with that (though it’d be better if she actually read Hebrew). But the Name is something that either has significance or it doesn’t, and in either case, she shouldn’t be getting a tattoo of it.

And of course the alchemical business is wrong, too. I don’t mind too much the use of pre-scientific mumbo-jumbo symbology, but at least get your pre-scientific mumbo-jumbo symbology correct. But that isn’t offensive, just ignorant.

As for the argument that a tattoo is only for the wearer and that it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks, that only holds water if you get the tattoo on the inside of your eyelids. Anywhere else, it’s going to be seen by someone else, and you know from the outset that it’s going to be seen by someone else, and when I see something, I have the absolute right to decide whether I like what I see. This doesn’t mean that anyone should be prohibited from getting a tattoo, but it does mean that it can reflect poorly on the person if they do.

Well described, and worth reading again.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

My question is still why anybody else should care. How are they hurt by it?

The people who are hurt by it are the Jewish people for whom it is a sacred symbol whose writing down casually is a forbidden act. You don’t have to agree with the sentiment to understand it. Many people find the misuse of important symbols offensive.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

The people who are hurt by it are the Jewish people for whom it is a sacred symbol whose writing down casually is a forbidden act. You don’t have to agree with the sentiment to understand it. Many people find the misuse of important symbols offensive.

This is not an answer to the question. I’m asking how they are HURT. It’s also not a forbidden act to the wearer, so no religious offense is involved.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

This is not an answer to the question. I’m asking how they are HURT.

Physically? Not at all.

Legally? Not at all.

Emotionally- offense is a form of emotional hurt to the person who perceives it. Consider it insulting, even if done ignorantly.

I think most people comprehend that seeing something sacred defaced is a form of emotional hurt, even if one doesn’t agree with it or feel hurt in that way themselves.
Didn’t see your edit: it’s a form of defacement and sacrilige irrespective of who does the act.

[Ogre]

This whole thing reminds me of the furor over the drawing of Muhammed, and is equally bizarre.

[hogarth]

She sounds pretty flaky, but hey, it’s her body. Why would I care?

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Physically? Not at all.

Legally? Not at all.

Emotionally- offense is a form of emotional hurt to the person who perceives it. Consider it insulting, even if done ignorantly.

I think most people comprehend that seeing something sacred defaced is a form of emotional hurt, even if one doesn’t agree with it or feel hurt in that way themselves.

What does “sacred” mean? what does “defaced” mean? These are semantically valueless terms. I’m not seeing any emotional hurt here. Someone having a different perception of some Hebrew letters does no emotional injury to anybody esle.

Didn’t see your edit: it’s a form of defacement and sacrilige irrespective of who does the act.

No it isn’t. This prohibition only applies to Jews.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

What does “sacred” mean? what does “defaced” mean? These are semantically valueless terms. I’m not seeing any emotional hurt here. Someone having a different perception of some Hebrew letters does no emotional injury to anybody esle.

No it isn’t. This prohibition only applies to Jews.

Well, if those terms have no meaning here, I can understand why you are confused and I am not capable of alleviating it.

@Ogre

This whole thing reminds me of the furor over the drawing of Muhammed, and is equally bizarre.

Well, that may be, but no one would be calling for death if she chose to do it. We’re just simply saying it might be offensive.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

You’re capable. You just need to use more substantive terms.

[Malthus]

@Ogre

This whole thing reminds me of the furor over the drawing of Muhammed, and is equally bizarre.

The difference is that she probably risks, at most, a rolleyes from some observant Jew who happens to see it.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

You’re capable. You just need to use more substantive terms.

You’re probably right. But I’m in the middle of giving an exam and my attention should be focused on a particular student with wandering eyes. I think you’re pretty capable of figuring it out too, so consider it a take home assignment.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

I think I already have figured it out. The “offense” is visceral, but essentially irrational.

[Malthus]

@Anaamika

Who cares? No one cares, really, when Chinese ideograms or Hindu symbols or Japanese kanji are appropriated. There is a woman on this very board who is getting a Sanskrit tattoo; I was dismayed to hear it but I like her very much otherwise, so I haven’t said anything and I won’t mention her name. Why do Jews get to be special? I’m not saying they’re not worthy of respect but so many other mainstream religions have been co-opted and stolen; join the party. Two years ago I saw a magnificent solid gold cross which Jesus on it, wearing a purple amethyst bikini. If the Christians can put up with that, this is nothing.

I don’t think anyone here is claiming Jews get to be “special”.

What I think is that Jews are simply not (yet) used to this sort of thing, because use of Jewish symbols decoratively by non-Jews is not nearly as widespread. If it becomes so, we will indeed have to “join the party”.