Well, damn, there goes my fun story for the day. Purdy horse you’ve got there, though.
I made an edit 1 minute after my original reply, where I tacked on this:
‘Edit: I should probably state that I’ve seen this view a lot of times here on the boards - in this particular situation with the OP’s granddaughter, yeah she doesn’t seem to be ready to be a responsible adult. It was just that this thread made me grumpy enough to reply.’
So I did say that I think the OP’s granddaughter isn’t ready for that sort of independence. But other people in the thread were talking about things like moving cross-country right after grad and knew their parents wouldn’t help them out at all, which makes me go :eek:.
taking full responsibility for yourself is pretty much the walking definition of being an adult. I don’t think that’s harsh, it’s just the reality of the situation. You’re parents are still giving you an allowance. The fact that you’re grateful for the money received and spend it wisely mean you will probably do well as an adult when the time comes.
Before I would give her a car I would insist she sit down with you and work out a budget based on 2 McDonalds jobs paying for an apartment.
There is no way she can afford this. It’s not even close.
Food, clothing, rent, down payment, utilities, cell phone(s) car insurance, apartment insurance, health insurance, furniture, internet, cable, cleaning supplies, toiletries, gas, oil, car maintenance, car license, taxes. I would lay everything out on a spreadsheet right down to expected costs of toothpaste and tampons. As you add a cost to each item have it total at the top of the page as a monthly cost that sits next to the fixed revenue of the 2 jobs. After all of this, ask her how she’s going to physically pay utility bills without a credit card or checkbook.
Lets put a list together of monthly expenses:
Food
Clothing
rent
down payment
utilities
cell phone(s)
car insurance
apartment insurance
health insurance
furniture
internet
cable
cleaning supplies
toiletries
gas
oil
car maintenance
car license
taxes.
Oil goes with car maintenance. I’d also call food, toiletries, and cleaning supplies “Groceries” but I see you want to show her that groceries isn’t just eats.
I totally understand where you’re coming from. My parents sound a lot like yours – they got me my first car as well, and they handled all my insurance (health, etc.) until I was 25. The point being that I was, in fact, grown up enough to handle all that stuff (and in fact seeing them do it helped me to figure it out), and like you, I saved all the money I wasn’t spending on that stuff. I think I have to say that I don’t think I was 100% a responsible adult at that stage, because in those relatively small ways I was in fact still depending on them, but I wasn’t a dependent either.
I know, also, that if something disastrous happened I could count on them. Heck, I know that if they weren’t available my sister and my husband’s family would try to help. I don’t think that makes you not a responsible adult as much as it makes you “someone who is lucky enough to have a support net.”
(They are now, in my opinoin, going overboard: they’ve said a couple of times that we should blow our entire life savings, including our emergency fund, on a house down payment, because if there’s an emergency of course they’d step in and help. I believe that if we actually did that, no, we wouldn’t be responsible adults.)
I think you’re exaggerating just a bit. Nearly half of that list is something an 18 year old adult in their first apartment will not have because they won’t be able to afford it. Specifically health insurance, furniture (hello bean bag decor!) and cable.
Other stuff on the list, like clothes, will become secondary to everything else. And still other things, the car license for example, is a once every six to ten years expense. Listing it is just piling on.
I’ll give you internet, cable and maybe furniture, but insurance is an absolute must, especially for someone living paycheck to paycheck. Hourly employees who will lose out on income and possibly lose their job all together if they have to take time off of work must have insurance, not to mention if everyone here is right and she gets knocked up and needs to be able to afford giving birth in a hospital. Beyond that the vehicle licensing must be renewed every year but you are right that her actual drivers license won’t need to be renewed except for every 8 years or so.
How is this a list of monthly expenses? Furniture is not a monthly expense, and in fact, I’ve only ever bought four pieces of furniture in my life. With the use of Craigslist or some friends, they could probably furnish a small apartment with barely any expense at all. Cleaning supplies are also not a monthly expense, especially if you’re living in a small space. Car maintenance is not a monthly expense, and there’s way to have your car taken care pretty cheaply (ie, take it to the garage at the local JC). Oil isn’t a monthly expense. Taxes? If they’re not making much money and they’re both students, and they’re renting, what taxes are they going to be paying? Cable is hardly a necessity. With the number of free wireless signals around, they not even have to pay for the Internet either. Toiletries and food can be kept on a pretty strict budget, and even if she doesn’t know how to budget now, she’ll learn pretty quick. The down payment isn’t a “monthly expense” either. Clothing isn’t a monthly expense either.
I’d say that monthly expenses actually come down to the following:
Groceries (food + toiletries)
Rent
Utilities (heat, water, garbage, maybe be included in the rent)
Cell phone(s)
Tuition (if they do go to school)
All the above are monthly expenses as set down in a BUDGET to be amortized in a time frame for the purposes of planning. You have a point that one-time events (such as advanced rent payment and electrical hookup) are not ongoing costs but everything else requires an ongoing flow of cash. Items such as a car require continuos maintenance or the life cycle has to be reduced when budgeting for a replacement. Tires, batteries, brakes, windshield wipers, windshield washer fluid, oil, anti-freeze, timing belts, accessory belts, transmission fluid, light bulbs etc… It all adds up. She has to be able to reconcile the incoming money from 2 (currently non-existent) jobs against the cost of living in the real world. If the car needs a battery then her transportation mode to work/school is gone.
While she is certainly going to be living with a modest household budget she still needs to pay for cinderblock tables and inflatable beds. She can probably relieve McDonalds of their plastic ware and plastic cups but she is going to want some form of cookware to get through the day.
One bit of advice on the concept of purchasing power is this:
After taking care of all the bills at the end of the week the money left over should be divided by the hours worked. That gives you the labor hour cost of non-essential items.
Example: After paying off bills you are left with $100 then divide that by the hours worked. If in this case, it was 2 people working 40 hrs then divide it by 80. That equals a labor hour of $1.25/hr. Apply that to a $500 TV and it means that you have to work 400 hrs to earn enough extra money to buy the TV.
@Magiver: I agree that many things should be considered as monthly expenses. According to the link I posted earlier, typical auto expenses run $4559. Granted that’s for a family of four but obviously even at half, it would be a significant expense.
I imagine that quite often, the poor young people find they’ve got $50 left over and go out to celebrate…but the next month they’re short because they need something for the car—a new battery, shocks, whatever.
And actually, you may not buy cleaning supplies every month or clothes every month but it’s always something. The brunt of it comes first, when you have a bare apt but if you live near your family, you can get a lot of hand-me-down stuff and build up your place as you go.
IANAL and YMMV but if two people sign a year rental agreement for an apartment and one bails out (or simply can’t pay), chances are that per the agreement they’re each still responsible for the rent. If it were difficult on two incomes, it’s probably impossible on one.
Of course, failure to pay goes on the credit history and follows ppl around for years, affecting whether or not they can get a student loan, a credit card, and so on.
“If we do not hang together, we will all hang separately.” ~Ben Franklin
That’s the whole point. Even if you break down the expenses using a bean bag budget it’s going to be obvious that she cannot afford to live on her own.
CAR license, not drivers license. I just paid mine and it was $58. so that would be $4.83 per month. Doesn’t sound like much until you add all the other $4.83 per month items. Car insurance for her is likely to be in the $800/year range so that’s $67 per month. $100 month for gas and now the car costs $172 a month before any upkeep. That’s just the car. The FREE car. That’s why I posted above that it was more of a financial liability to her than a gift.
What’s a car license? Are you talking about the registration? Because that’s good for two years.
I think that depends on where you live. My registration comes up every year.
Yes, when you license your car you are registering it. In Ohio that’s every year. On a trivia side note, they even link the registration to the plate. The decal now has the plate number on it.
John Carter of Mars, I’m glad that he is a nice young man. But you were so right to be concerned. Right here in Nashville and probably in every reasonably large city near you, young women and children have been sold into sexual slavery. Some are sold for the purpose of torture and sex.
I waited a couple of months before I met my computer romance who lived just across town. Even though I had gotten to know him very, very well through email and long phone calls, it took realizing that I knew his brother before I agreed to meet him in a very public place. We’ve were married 23 years ago (as soon as I was willing to convert to Auburnism.) So I have good feelings about these electronic connections.
Love at 17 is real and can burn with a hot flame. That’s not the same as being an adult. When you are an adult, you can wait not just a few weeks, but even a few years if that is what it takes.
It’s great to see you again, John. WDE!
WDE right back atcha’, Zoe
No further news today, I guess they are hanging around town, chillin’ with her friends.
Tomorrow is her 18th birthday. Maybe great plans will be revealed then. However, they’ve learned that in Alabama, 19 is the age of majority. I sprung for a consultation with a lawyer and they didn’t like a lot of what they heard there.
Basically, she can move out at 18 but can’t sign contracts, own a car or any other thing that requires legal signatures. If she leaves the state against her parent’s wishes, whoever she travels or lives with can be charged with “Contributing to the Delinquency” should one of the parents seek to pursue the matter.
Strange, but if she moves in with another 18 year old out of state, nothing can be done to her but her 18 year old companion (an adult in that person’s state of residence) can be charged for aiding her (an 18 year old minor in her state of residence).
I told her that the best thing is to butter her mother up, as the mother is the one most likely to cause trouble. And so it goes…
Well, there comes a time where we head out on our own and start making mistakes, it looks like this is hers. Like with the original trip, there’s not much you can do other than be there if it turns bad and be ready to provide the absolute minimum of support to keep her safe. And more importantly you need to be there for your own daughter/son (are you the paternal or maternal grandfather?) who is about to go through the difficult parenting experience of letting go of their daughter and waiting for the inevitable crash. You seem to be taking on more of a parenting role to the granddaughter when ideally you’d be providing advice to the parents, I realise life is not ideal though.