Tell me about being a lawyer - the day-to-day stuff

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hello all!

My brilliant nephew is graduating high school this year and is apparently considering Law School/being a lawyer. I, as his loving but far-away Aunt, would love to offer him some guidance since I also toyed with the idea once-upon-a-time but after working in a law office (mostly corporate law) decided tha I would hate it. So much paperwork and boring (to me)!

I have suggested he volunteer/job shadow some lawyers in different areas to see what he likes, but I also turn to you, Dopers - what is the good, the bad and the ugly of being a lawyer (realizing it will differ wildly depending on his specialty)? Any opinions/anecdotes/facts are welcome:

2

I know that you cover this in the last part of your post, but do you know if he is looking at civil or criminal? Keep in mind, it’s still very early before he has to even think about law school. I honestly can’t imagine a law school that would place much weight on what someone did the summer after graduating high school. He’ll most likely work in a file room or a mail room, doing basic clerical work.

I’ve litigated and done transactional law, working / clerking in small firms and in international firms, but have very little experience with criminal procedure (outside of my one class in law school, and the section of it in the Bar exam).

Any sort of way you could narrow the scope might help you get a more detailed & accurate answer.

3

I can only speak about my own experience - I do mostly regulatory law, working with manufacturers of medical supplies on a consulting basis - that is, I deal with problems that are passed on by various in-house lawyers for manufacturing companies. I also do some litigation.

The Good: well, to my mind, it is the intellectual challenge. Every day a new problem that is almost guaranteed to have already baffled other people (else they would never pay an outside consultant like me - my firm charges a whoppingly absurd hourly rate!)

The Bad: related to the good - some days it can be a bit overwhelming. You know that feeling you get before a big exam? It can be like that, only every damn day. If you screw up, it will likely be public, with terrible results for the client, and a major hit to your reputation. If you really hate that feeling, you may not want this sort of job.

The Ugly: the all-consuming nature of the business. The hours are long, the work is hard, and it is difficult to get away from it. I recently took a two-week vacation, and it was as if the world was comming to an end, judging by the panic reaction. Also, if you don’t cultivate a thick skin, the client’s problems can easily become your problems.

4

Good on him that he’s thinking that far ahead. What does he want to pursue as an undergraduate degree? I would suggest that it be something that he also has an interest in that could possibly be another career, if his interest in the legal profession wanes over the next few years.

5

I’ve been a paralegal for the last 13 years, both in a small (10-attorney) firm with a single (white-collar criminal) practice, as well as a mid-sized (450-attorney) firm with international offices and many different practices. I think the answer to your question varies so wildly depending on the firm’s size, what sort of law they practice, and the habits of the individual attorneys that I’m finding it difficult to even formulate a response.

I will say, though, that a not-insignificant number of attorneys in our firm started off as paralegals. There are programs out there where you can get your paralegal certification in a year (or you can do it as part of a two- or four-year college program). Your nephew could then work for a law firm in this capacity to get an up-close look at how the sausage is made before committing to years of law school and its associated debt.

At any rate, there are plenty of attorneys on this board who can probably give you a better answer than I can, but to the extent you might have any specific questions I can help with, I’m happy to try.

6

I will ask him for more detail to better aid in response quality. More to follow

7

It’s going to be hard to tell you what the “typical day in the life of a typical lawyer” is like, because there are so many options. Criminal law, Family law, PI work, etc… I have friends who work for small firms and drink while their are on the clock and in the office, and I have friends who work for huge firms who have cots in their offices for the times when they have to pull an all-nighter and can’t get home.

Seriously, one of my buddies, right out of law school, worked at a firm where he was in the office for 72+ hours. (If I remember correctly, he did M&A or some other area of Corporate law that was cyclical, and so everyone knew when the “busy season” was. Also, since he lived 45 minutes away, he preferred to just stay in the office, for optics reasons.

I clerked / worked law firms every summer after my Freshman year of college, and I can speak to what he’ll likely be doing in the immediate future. Odds are, he’ll basically be an office drone. He will be sorting files, possibly reorganizing cabinets and delivering mail. He might do some typing, but it won’t be much of any importance. (Well, hopefully, because I know I wouldn’t want to hire an attorney that let an 18 year-old temporary worker handle crucial matters in my case)

If he gets a job through a family friend or some other connection, then he might get a little more exposure to the daily routine, but considering he’ll be there for 3 months, tops, I can’t imagine attorneys or HR taking a lot of time out of their schedules to train or groom him.

One summer, I worked in the firm’s basement storage, retrieving files and organizing the client / matters. I’d also deliver mail, but for the most part, I was out of sight & out of mind.

The next summer, I worked for their “rival,” and I was to spend the summer organizing their accounting files, but it took considerably less time than expected. (A little under two weeks) From then on, I worked in the mail room, where I would deliver mail, make copies and do other tedious & banal tasks.

It wasn’t until I was in law school that I got jobs where I was doing research, writing memos, etc.

8

I changed my idea about what kind of law to practice in law school. Then again, after 5 years of practice. I have always done some kind of litigation, though, and find it constantly interesting, and sometimes frustrating.

It would be impossible to describe the “day to day” stuff in a general sense. Lawyers’ practices vary so much. The good news is that you might be able tailor what your typical day will be once you figure out what you like to do. There are lawyers in our firm who don’t like to go to court, and sit around all day writing briefs. There are some that don’t enjoy that, and go to depositions and court hearings/trials a great deal. Of course, non litigation lawyers do 1000 different things too. Some lawyers like client contact, others are really bad at it. Some are simply “rainmakers” who bring the clients in and let others do the “grunt work.” If he has an interest in the law, I wouldn’t worry about him finding a position that suits his needs.

9

Immigration paralegal here with 15+ years of experience. For that matter, I don’t know that there are any paralegal programs at all that teach immigration, so people tend to learn by the apprenticeship method in my subfield, for lack of a better term. I had some experience doing job counseling for refugees and some experience as an interpreter at Immigration Court, which got me my first paralegal job. Out of the dozens of other immigration paralegals I’ve known, almost none actually had a paralegal certificate, but most had some kind of related work experience (university international student office, HR rep at an international corporation…many different things, really).

10

I am a patent lawyer, working in-house at an invention capital company. I’ve shifted over to doing more prosecution lately, which sounds like going to court but actually means exchanging correspondence with the Patent Office about why we deserve patents on our inventions. I also write new patent applications. It’s very deadline driven. You get anywhere from two to six months to respond to most things. I have many, many balls in the air at any given time, but it’s relatively easy to manage the workload. (Usually - I had an unusual crush of work in the last six weeks and have been working lots of late nights trying to stay caught up.) I mostly work alone, writing letters and applications and filing them with the Patent Office (my paralegal handles the mechanics of filing most of the time). I’ve been practicing for 18 years, and out of law school for 13. (I worked as a patent agent before I went to law school, the only non-lawyers allowed to practice law in most states.)

In order to be a patent lawyer, though, you have to have a science/engineering degree (or sufficient course hours in those subjects), and take a separate bar exam on Patent Office practice and procedure. I have a bachelors and a PhD in materials science in addition to my JD. I can understand the scientists and consult with them as needed to figure out how to respond to the objections of the Patent Office and how to write patent applications that will get allowed. It’s pretty specialized work. At this point, I wouldn’t know where to start if someone asked me to write a will or defend them in court. (I can write IP license contracts, but I haven’t for quite a few years now.)

All that said, it is not a great time to be graduating from law school. The market is contracting, and it can be difficult to get a job as a new lawyer. He should definitely look at the legal market carefully and think about how well he is likely to do in law school before spending a bundle on it. It really, really sucks to have a five-figure school debt and then not be able to get a job that pays more than $50k/year, and unlike most debts, you usually can’t get rid of student loans in bankruptcy.

11

I’ve heard there is a glut of lawyers and they are having trouble finding a job.

12

ENugent beat me to it! I basically do the same thing (patent writing and prosecution) except I am not an attorney, so an attorney in our office signs off on my stuff and files it. I hope to take and pass the patent bar in a year or two and become a Patent Agent.

There is a large amount of attention to detail in what I do. There are a lot of formalities that have to be followed, and a lot of reading and writing as well. It works for me as I like to write and make logical arguments and I have good reading comprehension. I also like that there are always new patents coming in and I get to learn about different types of things since I have to understand the invention in order to write the patent application.

I really like my job, but I think it is a tough sell since you need both a strong science/engineering background and good writing skills.

13

Word. Something to watch out for is the unwritten best before date of law degrees when it comes to getting that first job.

14

Show him this: So You Want To Go To Law School

15

Everyone always says their day to day “depends”. But for lawyers, I imagine that it can be summed up in meetings, conference calls, dealing with vast amounts of paperwork and researching case law. If you’re a litigator you go to court, but not all lawyers are litigators.

And yet I never seem to meet a poor lawyer.

16

Hi, pleased to meet you!

Not poor, but only solidly middle class. I will do better once my student loans are forgiven in another five years.

There are an awful lot of lawyers who are not working in traditional law firm or corporate law jobs. Look to working for the government or non-profits. The money is not as good but the hours are oh-so much better. I have a colleague who came over from a private firm and still hears from friends about their first partners meetings or some other accomplishment, but then also hears about how they work 60 or 70 hour weeks and never see their family. Meanwhile, we have this discussion as we walk out the door at 4:30 every day. It is a trade off, but one I make happily.

My day-to-day is legal, but not what most people would identify as traditional work for an attorney. I work to develop and adopt state level regulations. This requires a lot of stakeholder interaction, regulation drafting, and following a regulatory adoption process. I never see a court room, I never read cases, I never will litigate anything.

I find what I do very rewarding. I also find it very frustrating at times. Much like any other job.

17

I did the paralegal cert program and other than volunteering at a woman’s shelter helping the residents with assorted paperwork I used it as a springboard to get into contract creation and compliance and segued into forensic accounting [I had been taking accounting and business courses on the side for about 8 years] so there is non-lawyer legal goodies out there that let you use your education without the heavy work burden.

18

I’m a paralegal in family law, which is a brutal business. 95% of the clients are crazy, attorneys spend all day on the phone putting out fires, and a true vacation away from email and cell phones is unheard of.

I also worked for an in-house corporate legal department and those attorneys seemed much less stressed.

So it depends on what kind of law you practice, but overall my experience has shown me that I never ever want to be a practicing attorney. The money is simply not worth the stress.

19

Oh, pshaw; do you ever meet a poor anything? You live in New York, and are fairly successful financially - I mean you’re not exactly likely to meet poor people in the circles you travel in. Not that there’s anything wrong with that; you’re probably not missing much by having limited interaction with poor people.

20

There’s so much truth to this.

One of my biggest complaints about my law school was with the Career Services department. If you were in the Order of the Coif (Top 10%) or on Law Review (similar), they would bend over backwards in helping you find a job with one of the big firms. But, those were the people who didn’t need any help, as the firms were actively recruiting those people, regardless of any assistance from the school.

Similarly, if you expressed any interest in anything that was not directly related to “traditional practice,” they were at a complete loss for advice or guidance.

I have a family member who has a MBA and a J.D., and he never even took the Bar. He’s doing quite well for himself now, using the education he gained from his three years in law school without actually practicing.

There definitely is a trade-off between paycheck and quality of life. A friend who I’ve mentioned on other threads does asbestos litigation and does very well for himself, but his job requires him to be on the road the majority of the time, and he gets very little time to spend with his wife and kids. Asking him about it, he is obviously less than thrilled, but rationalizes it by saying that the additional money will help his family down the road (they have / had substantial medical expenses), and since his field is dying out, he won’t be doing this long-term. Of course, he also said that six years ago…

I’d also agree that there is a glut of lawyers out there right now. Unless you plan on specializing in tax law or patent law (or have substantial connections for a job, upon graduation), I’d think twice before incurring the extra debt.