Tell me about Huntsville, AL

Please?

I recently (as in New Years Eve), threw in a job application for a post at Marshall/National Space Science and Technology Center and given that they contacted me on Thursday to do a phone interview on Friday during which they asked me when I’d be free to come over and give a seminar etc, they appear to be rather keen on having me there. So now I’m wondering what Huntsville is actually like. Will not driving be a problem? What’s the population like? How about stuff like ethnic foods and stuff? I’m used to big-ish European cities with diverse populations and good public transport. Any thoughts?

I’m not from Huntsville (I’m from Tuscaloosa, AL), but I can tell you that in Alabama as a whole, the cost of living is fairly low, along with property values, so that’s nice. It’s also really not as uncouth as it is portrayed in pop culture, as long as you’re not out in the middle of nowhere. I’ve heard on these boards that Huntsville, especially, has a very different culture from the rest of the state, and lots of intelligent, educated people because of NASA and the military base there, which are big influences on it.

I can’t tell you for sure if not driving will be a problem, but it most likely will. Alabama is not the place to be if you don’t want to drive. There sure as heck isn’t a subway, so unless you want to use a (likely) slow bus system, there won’t be many options.

The population is 171,327 in the city and 386,632 in the metropolitan area. I’m not sure where you’re from, so I don’t know what you’re looking for. It’s definitely not extremely big, but it’s bigger than Tuscaloosa.

Again, I can’t tell you for sure if it will have ethnic foods, but considering the unique population and culture, it probably will. I know Tuscaloosa has a decent amount, but it is also a university town. I imagine that NASA will have pulled in some fairly diverse people to work there, but again, I can’t guarantee anything. The Mexican food in Alabama is usually very good, at least in my area; Huntsville is very far north, though, so I can’t be sure of that, either.

Overall, I think Alabama is a very nice place to live, although there’s not that much to see on vacation, except for the beaches, which are very pretty (although the area around them is not exactly classy).

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

ETA: I think I may have misread you. Are you looking to come here for a permanent job or just for a short time?

Its initially a 2 year post, but with the possibility for extension. I’d not be looking to settle down in AL (or even the USA I don’t think), but returning to Europe at some point in the not-too-distant future.

Would I be able to learn to drive, as a post-high school, foreigner out there?

Alabama is a lovely place to be, but there isn’t much here to see (oooh, I rhymed!). I live an hour from Huntsville, and compared to my hometown it is a very flashy place, complete with gourmet chocolate shops, the Space and Rocket Center, and a big mall. I have not personally been to any ethnic restaurants there, but I am sure they have a couple of sushi bars and some Mexican places. It also contains many intelligent and well-spoken people as compared to other areas in the state, including the town where I live. Generally you encounter less racism and homophobia and more college graduates. I don’t know about their public transportation system, but I’m sure you can get a taxi.

I have never lived in Huntsville, but I have visited many times. And I lived in Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina for 40 years, so I know a little bit about the South. My wife is from Huntsville, and my mother-in-law and various brothers- and sister-in-law still call it home. It is a fairly typical mid-largish Southern American city, with the major exception that it is a magnet for high-tech firms.

Huntsville has small, well-defined and older downtown sections, surrounded by widely dispersed suburbs. Therefore, not driving will definitely be an issue, as the public transportation system is in no way comparable to that of a European city. I’m in Budapest as I write this, so I have some basis for comparison. There are buses in Huntsville, but a quick look at the route maps show there are vast areas of the metro area that are nowhere close to a bus route.

As for ethnic foods, well, you’re going to find cheap & cheerful Mexican food most anywhere in the Southern US, as well as Chinese, Italian, and the odd sushi bar. What you’re not going to have is your pick of ten different upscale French restaurants. However, if you’re not acquainted with the miracle that is real Southern barbecue, you’re in for a treat. And fried catfish is no slouch, either. (Southerners will deep fry most forms of food, by the way, up to and including vegetables and desserts).

Much of the local economy is driven by NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and Redstone Arsenal, the army base. Consequently, there are a lot of high-tech firms, and they attract a fairly well-educated demographic. (Wikipedia says the Cummings Research Park is the second largest in the US.) But this is still Alabama we’re talking about, and the state ranked 45 in education in 2006-2007 (Smartest State 2006-2007), and 45 in the percentage of the population with a bachelor’s degree or more (Statistical Abstract of the US for 2006). So there are plenty of people on both extremes of the educational spectrum.

The Southern US tends to be politically Conservative, and Alabama is a red state. That is, it voted Republican in the last presidential contest (as well as in all four of the 4 previous presidential elections). That’s not to say there aren’t some liberals interspersed into the population, but this is the Bible Belt. For some people that is a plus, for others, not so much.

Geographically, Huntsville sits at the base of several mountains, one of the most prominent being Monte Sano, which is right at 500 meters tall. There’s a nice state park at the top of it. My wife tells me the Indian name of the valley where Huntsville sits is “valley of bad air” and that a lot of people have sinus problems, but as I always have sinus problems I didn’t notice the difference. And I think the mountains are quite pretty, especially at night when the houses and streets are lit up. The Tennessee River is also nearby, and the dam across the river at Guntersville (approx 40 miles away?) has created a very large lake with lots of recreational opportunities. There are definitely four distinct seasons in northern Alabama, and Mom-in-law says they are currently in the middle of a protracted drought.

My guess is, based on living in a comparably city (Columbia, SC) for a long time, the cultural opportunities are going to be far less than in Europe. E.g., in the past 10 months in Budapest we’ve seen more international music talent come through than we did during 10 years in Columbia. Huntsville, similar in size to Columbia, would compete with Birmingham and Montgomery and Nashville, TN to attract talent. However, Birmingam and Nashville are each only about 2 hrs. away by car (B’ham a little less, N’ville a little more).

If you’re going to there to advance your career in high-tech, it’s a good spot. Likewise if you enjoy hiking and fishing and the change of the seasons. But if you’re looking to be overwhelmed by cultural opportunities, ethnic diversity, and fine cuisine, in my humble opinion, you will be hard-pressed to find them.

One of my customers worked for a defense contractor in Huntsville. Every 3rd phone call was him espousing the virtues of living there. It has a shockingly low unemployment rate and according to him, if you had a pulse, you could find a job.

I would vote him to be head of the Relocation Department any day. He loved it there.

Well I wouldn’t have to worry about a job if I moved there – that’d be in the bag first… :wink: How far away is it from airports etc?

Huntsville has its own medium sized airport. It has to based on the industries centered there. http://www.hsvairport.org/

I have been there 3 times (two for Space Camp) and loved it for that purpose. I have never known anyone that lived there that didn’t like it to some degree and most loved it. The high-tech opportunities are immense.

For some comedy that reflects the stereotypical view of Alabama versus Huntsville’s importance in the space program, see Jeff Foxworthy on the subject:

"We were in Huntsville, Alabama couple a months ago and uh, You know even
growin up in the south I never realized the NASA space camp was in Huntsville, Alabama. Cuz that’s just two words that don’t seem like they belong together, NASA and Alabama. Cuz they might be trainin’ em there, they’re not lettin people from Alabama fly this stuff. “HEY HOUSTON, IT’S DARK AS CRAP UP HERE! Waitaminnit I did it wrong, Break one-nine! Look, we got problems, Ed’s dun busted out the capsule winda’ tryin to hit a satelite with a beer bottle! And we need to know how to unstop the toilet, the boys ate all the freeze-dried chili and they’re tore up something bad!”

And you know the thing is, southerners are as smart as anybody else in this country, our only problem is we just cant keep the most ignorant amongst us off the television. That’s the truth. I mean, every time we have a disaster, they never film a doctor or a lawyer, they always get that woman in the moo-moo and the sponge rollers. “It was pandelerium! I thought we’d be killed or even worse. I looked out the window in time to see the chicken’s house go right over our roof! All I could think was Caroline still has my casserole
dish!”

I am Southern by the way but I am exiled to New England right now. I would would move to Huntsville in a second if the right opportunity presented itself.

My previous post from a thread here on IMHO comparing San Antonio, Tx and Huntsville from less than two months ago. Lots more good information there. For your question - public transportation just isn’t in the cards except for seniors. Not much winter - I did bicycle commute to my job on the arsenal 3 days out of 5 most of the time - research park would have been easy too. There are other who do it. Get up early to beat the traffic. See valleyplanet.com for local information and the Huntsville Times on line for the newspaper.

Lived in Huntsville 8 years - still have house there
Huntsville - you have to include Madison County as well. It’s smaller on a city scale.

Sports are minor league - AA baseball, arena football, minor league hockey, minor league basketball. The University of Alabama (at Huntsville) plays ice hockey as the major sport. This was my first clue that Huntsville is really different from the rest of Alabama. Heck, they were in Division I when I first moved there in the mid-80’s. Lots of golf if so inclined - part of the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail.

Shopping/Food/Entertainment - You have all the chain stores/restaurants. There is also a small assortment of local flavors - see “Valley Planet” on the web for night life/eating local. If you like southern cooking - they have all the bacon grease, BBQ , and briskets you can stuff down. Music like the Big Spring Jam is all over the map. Blues over in Muscle Shoals. Nashville is a couple hours north for country. Regular touring entertainment at the Von Braun Civic Center.

Education - Schools are excellent. Huntsville has second highest density of PHDs per capita after the area around Sandia Labs. Lots of corporate representation due to NASA and the Defense Department. Redstone Arsenal has the Aviation and Missile Command, Lab Command, Army Material Command (coming soon), Ballistic Missile Defense office, Logistics Command, and others in residence. Lots of rank, educated civilians/scientists, who demand good schools. There was a lot of concern (in St Louis) when the Aviation and Troop Command was being moved to Huntsville in the early 90’s. They heard the stories about Alabama schools and culture. Early arrivers sent back favorable impressions and the masses followed to generally positive conclusions.

Housing - Lots of space, cost of living is reasonable. Need more houses because a new command is moving to the Arsenal? Just plow down some additional cotton fields and forest out in Madison County. Large assortment of McMansions and a old town district as well. Income tax and sales tax but property tax is not bad. Traffic outstrips the ability to build roads fast enough - not any different than any other growing location.

Weather - Probably not as hot - more humid. You’ll see some snow flakes in winter but that’s about all. Tornadoes and hail are a concern. Weather channels are all over the coverage though.

Historical events. Spent more time in Northern hands during the Civil War. This section of Alabama considered seceding from the rest of the state in the build up to the war. Many of the old families/houses sported competing Union/Confederate flags flying during the war. Became the Rocket City after WWII with the influx of German scientists and Goddard’s group.

Huntsville is very progressive (especially compared to the rest of the state). Want to build a regional airport to take a load off Atlanta? Me, me, me - we have the land. Good local government - pro-growth. A supercollider? Nuclear Power? Moon base? Rest of the state just rolls their eyes!

Summary - probably similar but on a smaller scale. Depends on what’s important to you and family. No family - I’d pick Texas.

Hi, I live in Huntsville. The population here is unique to Alabama, Mainly because we have a lot of Engineers and the education level is well above average. Not being able to drive will be a problem. Working on RSA will make it much easier to car pool.

We have a good amount of ethnic food around, Thai, Korean, Indian, and German are around, with your typical Chinese, Mexican and Italian food in abundance.

I do not know who does the adult driving classes, but I will ask around and can get back to you.

If I can be of any other help just let me know here in the thread or e-mail.

Osip

You will probably be able to find someone to teach you how to drive through private lessons. That’s how I learned, and it was only about $200 or so. He or she will probably be used to teaching teenagers, but if you explained you situation, I’m sure you could get lessons. At least you won’t have to complete the requirements for a graduated license :wink: (the system for gradually granting privileges to new drivers under age 18). It’s a lot easier to get a license in America than in Europe, too, because everyone needs one outside the huge metropoles.

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

I live in Nashville and I’m crazy about Huntsville.

There will be no problem in finding cultural activities. The last time that I was there, I saw a sign about the Kirov Ballet performing (from St. Petersberg, Russia). They get travelling Broadway shows and have very active local theater. These are things that I’ve run across just in short visits.

Southern food is also very tasty in itself. When you are in Huntsville, just ask the locals where the best Southern food is.

One thing that makes me smile is seeing bumperstickers that say “Yes, actuallly I am a rocket scientist.” You can’t help but catch a little bit of NASA fever when you are there. I know that I’ve revived my interest in the space program somewhat.

Those beaches that someone mentioned are really gorgeous! Yes, you do have to drive through some run down areas, but they seem safe enough. That is the reality of the poverty of the Gulf Coast. But the sand is beautifully white and I know some pretty places to stay that aren’t over-crowded during some pleasant months. These beaches would be about seven or eight hours by car from Huntsville.

I don’t want you thinking that the rest of Alabama is dumb as a sack of hair either. My in-laws were both from Alabama. They both had college degrees and wide interests. My mother-in-law was as well-read as any woman I’ve known. You will find what you expect to find.

My mother-in-law saw Rachmaninoff play. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the largest Shakespearean theater outside of England is in Alabama. Want to visit the country club where Zelda and F. Scott Fitzgerald met for the first time? It’s in Alabama.

Huntsville is also ranked as one of the “greenest” cities in the United States.

OK… I’m rapidly becoming sold!

Shagnasty, that’s good to know about the airport, as I’ve been told I’d be having to make regular trips to North California to take a hands on role in the S-Z telescope the group has in the mountains. A nearby airport makes it that much easier.

Smithsb, that all sounds great. I figured I’d probably need to learn to drive and get a car, but I suppose that’d be the same wherever in the USA I went. I unfortunately don’t get a choice between AL or TX, since the job’s in Huntsville. :wink: It sounds like a great place actually, quite techy, and the entertainment/night life seems pretty decent. Not as decent as Paris or London, but I think I’ve been spoilt there!

Osip, Vox, that’s good to know about the driving instruction… And I’m well past the age of 18 so no graduated license for me! :wink: And Osip, if I do end up moving there, I’ll probably have a whole host of questions! Am probably going to come out in February/March to give a seminar etc, so I’ll hopefully get more of a feel for the place…

Zoe the beaches and cultural stuff sounds brilliant… This is all making me feel a lot more positive! And I fully intend to get caught up by NASA fever if I move there, they’d be paying me after all… :wink:

Definitely take a few days to get the feel of the place. I grew up in Huntsville, and while I really enjoyed living there, I’d never move back. Cultural stuff is good for a city of its size, but good for a city of 150K is not even in the same universe as cultural stuff in a city of over a million. There is a real DIY vibe to the cultural stuff–there are film festivals and plays and concerts and lectures, but they often aren’t slick or professional. There’s something to be said for this–it gives stuff a sort of small town feel, and even better, if you want to be part of this sort of thing, it’s easy to do.

It’s a more cosmopolitan town than most of the south, but it’s still a more conservative/religious town than most tech-centers. Schools don’t have events on Wednesday nights because the Baptists have church. People will invite you to go to church events with them. They won’t be pushy or evangelical, but many, many people there are devoutly Christian. I don’t know if this is an issue for you, but it will be a change.

The landscape is breathtakingly gorgeous, but outside a few old neighborhoods, parks and sections of downtown, the city is ugly: there is little urban landscaping done, and a lot of the buildings were designed by very practical engineer-types.

There are a lot of cool things about Huntsville, and I think two years there would be a neat experience. But there is going to be significantly more culture shock than if you moved to NY or DC. Whether that’s a plus or a minus depends on your personality.

Hi Angua,

I currently live in Huntsville and work at the NSSTC. Which group will you be working with (assuming you do come)?

I’m originally from Japan and lived in Cambridge (UK) and Cambridge (MA) previously, among other places. I can tell you Huntsville will be a big shock for you - could be positive or negative, maybe both. I love the wide open spaces here, I enjoy driving/cycling through open fields and up the (small) mountains. There are rivers, wildlife preserves, etc all very close. It’s a nice convenient city, big enough that it has everything a city needs, but small enough that most of it is within 15 minutes drive from where I can afford to live.

In terms of culture/entertainment, it’s much more limited than what you’re used to. We have some major artists/acts perform here once in a while. But you may also need to be open-minded and learn to enjoy what’s available. E.g. I didn’t have much interest in American folk music before, but now I look forward to the Fiddlers Convention every year. And my wife (who is from here) has introduced me to some interesting things like contra dance (lot more fun than it sounds, really).

You’ll need to learn to drive, but Huntsville is just about the easiest place to drive. The roads are wide, parking is never a problem, and there are hardly any traffic jams (except at the gates going into Redstone Arsenal, but you won’t have to deal with that). And the driving test is laughably easy. There are a few “driving schools” listed in the phone book. (I wouldn’t be surprised if each one was just one guy with a car, but that should be OK).

The actual Marshall Space Flight Center is in the middle of Redstone Arsenal (a US Army base) so it’s very restrictive, especially for foreign nationals. Which is why they built the NSSTC, a building located in and owned by UAH (University of Alabama in Huntsville). I think most MSFC astronomy teams have moved out here now, including the solar physics group and the GLAST Burst Monitor operation. Many UAH space science groups have moved into it as well. NSSTC is very much science/academic oriented so I think you’ll feel right at home. (The rest of NASA is more engineering-oriented.) You still need to get cleared by NASA security so expect quite a bit of red tape, but it’s nowhere as bad as if you were working on base.

As for ethnic food, you can probably find one or two good examples in each major genre - e.g. there’s one good Japanese restaurant, one good Vietnamese restaurant, etc.

Feel free to e-mail too if you have more specific questions…

My mom is from Huntsville and I have a lot of family there. So for me it has always been a place to visit, and it’s a nice place to visit. I think what everyone in the thread has said so far matches up with my experiences, particularly the bits about how different Huntsville is from the rest of the state. My Grandmother, who has lived in Huntsville since the mid 1950s is a bit horrified at the direction her state has turned, but is glad that at least Huntsville has stayed “cosmopolitan.” (In quotes because how cosmopolitan Huntsville is, is a very relative thing.)

The one thing that hasn’t been said is this, it will feel very small town to you if you are used to big cities. I don’t necessarily think that is a bad thing, but it is something that you should be aware of. It isn’t really small town if you compaire it to actual small towns, but compaired to the “Big European Cities” you talked about, it will feel very small. There is a lot to do, and there isn’t much to do all at the same time if that makes sense.

But if I was going to move to the South, Huntsville would be high up on my list of places to live, even without my family there.

I would add my voice to those recommending you visit first before taking a 2 year posting. (But heck, I’d recommend that before moving anywhere.) I’m not here to slag off Huntsville specifically or Alabama in general, but I think moving there would be a very great shock to a foreign national. “Cosmopolitan,” it ain’t.

Yeah, I don’t want my Grandmothers quote to be misleading.

It really isn’t cosmopolitan at all unless your standard is the rest of the state of Alabama.

I visited a few years ago and was pleasantly surprised. I ate at a good mexican restaurant and two great Thai restaurants. There seemed to be some decent music venues and so on.

Don’t know your expectations or standards, but you could certainly do a lot worse.

Well, when you come down to scope the place out let me know I can at least pick up dinner somewhere. I will be out of town mid to late march for a week, but am around most of the time. Also, working as a locksmith I have an above average knowledge of where everything is and a reasonably good direction giver.

Osip